Women who are misogynists and how to navigate

[Simplifying]

Title explains my reasons for posting. I think, I know quite well by now, how to deal with man who hate women.

How do I navigate women in all areas of life who hold contempt towards me and other women when it's clear it is as a result of being a by-product of misogyny?

Can you tell me what form your misogyny takes? What is it you dislike about women?

What do you think made you form these attitudes? Is it based on previously bad experiences with women or something else?

Toxic masculinity is what made my father believe he had the right to control, hurt, and beat my mother, and later me.

Toxic masculinity is what made my ex husband believe that marriage gave him entitlement and ownership of my body, and that it can’t possibly be rape when it’s your wife.

Toxic masculinity is the reason why a leading cause of death in young men is suicide, because it teaches them that emotions shouldnt be shown, that they should ‘man up’ and push everything down.

Toxic masculinity exists, and it harms both women and men.

It’s seriously weird that you find that funny.

Ah , but you see , the are the right kind of woman (that follows all the mysoginistic rules), and all the women they hate/despise aren’t. And as such , they deserve anything that comes their way. Preferably a bad thing, because breaking the mold is not acceptable.

They absolutely can. You grow up in a society which has unspoken gender norms and you will absorb them, without even thinking about it. Now whether it gets to the point of "misogyny" is open to question but things like this might be "go to" thoughts for anyone, men or women and the work of abolishing sexism is to consciously counter these thoughts.

• On meeting a nurse, assuming they will be female without meeting them first.
• Assuming women will get custody of children.
• Not having any work hours flexibility for people with kids and seeing it as normal.
• Having a man speak up in a meeting to claim credit for work others have done and not thinking that's a problem.
• Not challenging that the only workwear in your workplace is designed for men.
• Being treated less seriously as a woman in medical settings especially when it comes to pain and thinking it's normal.
• Thinking you don't have what it takes to go for a promotion as a woman.
• Thinking organising the home is your job as a woman and not expecting better from your partner or kids.

I'm sure you can think of many more.

These beliefs and the actions that sometimes follow them are damaging to both men and women. So it could equally be asked why men are ever misogynistic.

Was your workwear ever fitted for you as a woman? Or was it "unisex" i.e. men's fitting?

I ask because as someone else in manufacturing, this is the norm I've found. I have had shoes I've had to go down sizes in. Coats that are too long in the arms. Ok so far, so annoying but when it comes to things like fall arrest harnesses or face fit masks, those things can actually be a safety risk.

I think you make a valid, if combative point. There is a huge issue with male suicide globally and men's place in the world is being challenged more than ever before. That is a problem. And it's not just a problem for men to fix.

The problem is though that some of the "solutions" proposed by some influencers etc are very toxic. The kinds of stuff that breeds a rape culture where abuse of women is normalised.

I did find the book "The Power" fascinating though. It's based upon the premise that women acquire a strength that men don't have and what happens next. I don't think women are inherently "nicer", I just think they're inherently weaker and that means you have to use other tools to remain safe (as much as you can) and influence.

But toxic masculinity, while an overused phrase, is a problem IMO. And a problem people are doing little to address. Sadly far too many women on these boards have been victims of violence or rape from men who thought of them as "less than" and if we don't challenge some of the culture that perpetrates that, whatever you call it, then it will persist.

I think men need to be part of that drive though, just as much as women need to be part of the drive to help men's mental health. Being only adversarial about it all isn't helpful but some of the online views of men who perpetrate hate cannot be tolerated either.

I respond to the situation.

Some examples.
My mil bought ME a mini chopper, for our 10 year wedding anniversary, so “I could prepare veg for a stew before I went to work. I turned to my husband and said look what your mum has bought you so you can prepare food before YOU go to work.

MIL (before the anniversary) was saying how I could prepare food in the slow cooker before I went to work. (At the time I worked longer hours and earned more money than husband) I pointed out that her son has 2 functional hands that he could use if he wanted that. She was all shocked “oh well yeah of course”

Whenever I see a woman write how her husband is a “hands on dad” I reply how the meant “parent”

It’s no different to how I call out the men. I have a make friend who would say his sons nails need cutting, because they are long like a girls. I point out that my nails are always short and seeing as his son’s nails are long, then they are long like a boy. He has actually stopped saying as much stuff. This was all said jokingly and he finds it funny. He now even says, grow a vagina instead of grow some balls 😂

I think the best way is to use logic against the statement.

The only thing I'm laughing at is the hypocrisy of the people who moan about toxic masculinity while contributing to it. It must take some serious mental gymnastics to interpret it any other way.

Yes, I agree with much of that. I think the reality is often far simpler than many people realise though. If an individual or a group is significantly more powerful than another individual/group then it's ultimately at their discretion whether they want to share that power.

If the other individual/group gets shirty with them then they'll just be like "meh, whatever". It's the reason why dictators are rarely deposed through any means other than force.

I’m not contributing to it. It’s weird thats where your head went after reading my post

I made that point before you even posted. It's not all about you.

You quoted my post. You’re the one who made it about me.

Except your first contribution to this thread was quoting my post.

Yes, where did I say I didn’t?

The irony of “laughing at the hypocrisy of the people who moan about toxic masculinity while contributing to it” whilst doing exactly that.

My mother is one of the biggest misogynists I've ever met (second to just dad). Throughout my childhood she told me how awful women are, how she prefers working with men, how teenage girls who are abused by their male teachers had led the men on, and the men were the victims: "these girls know exactly what they're doing, poor man has lost his family".

I suspect she preferred working with men, because the women she worked with saw her for what she is: hate-filled and bitter.

I think there is a lot of nuance with the word misogynist. I work with a lot of older women who are misogynistic especially about women interacting with men, but I think it is more like a protective mechanism. When they were younger they didn't have the grounding that the millenials and Gen Z have in their rights because they were new.

My mum is misogynistic where as my dad is just plain old sexist- almost like Mr and Mrs Bennet. My mum is very narrow minded about what women can achieve, and my dad is just a bit passive about it until he has to change his mind.

Then there are women who are progressively misogyinistic. Megan Rapinoe and Emma Watson who have built a public persona on being supportive of "vulnerable" males while disregarding the realities that females face when the societal boundaries are broken down. From their point of view being a feminist includes women as an identity rather than a reality.

I don't think it's helpful to lump people who are pro trans as misogynist. I think it just ends up with mud slinging and name calling (and nobody changing their minds).

On this topic, it's all pretty much Stonewall's fault. I also think it's fair to say that trans women are often subject to discrimination. But that all said, some of the intransigent views of Stonewall have lead to circles that just can't be squared. It's ended up with people taking very black and white views without accepting that some things cannot just be fixed in a way that suits everyone. So for some situations, e.g. Isla Bryson, having even got to that point was pretty stupid. For others, frankly whether or not the person presents as a woman is more important IMO.

Everybody wants every decision to be black and white on trans either pro trans women or against but IMO, there is a place for nuance. Some of those decisions will not be pro trans. E.g. refuges, prisons. It makes common sense to me that there is no way to resolve the issues of that. Some of those decisions will be pro trans. For example, does it really matter if FTSE C Suite representation data includes trans women? Is that not an area where we could be more flexible? As presenting is the important factor surely? And lastly some areas can be sidestepped entirely. For example, why are there not individual cubicles for any workplace changing areas nowadays?