Women who are misogynists and how to navigate

[Simplifying]

Title explains my reasons for posting. I think, I know quite well by now, how to deal with man who hate women.

How do I navigate women in all areas of life who hold contempt towards me and other women when it's clear it is as a result of being a by-product of misogyny?

It was supposed to be spell as Men in first paragraph; obviously not meant as a solitary, specific man.

I have an acquaintance who clearly dislikes other women. I try to avoid her tbh. I can't imagine having a conversation with her about it.

I just knew this topic wouldn't draw a crowd.

Best thing would probs be to demonstrate that you're not sexist like them and respect both sexes equally. Kill them with kindness etc. Doubling down on how horrid men are will make you seem like the mirror image and validate their misogyny.

Thank you for your AI response

Can you give an example of the sort of behaviour you mean? Or the situations where that contempt has happened or is happening to you? What indicates it’s a dislike of other women particularly as opposed to a dislike of others generally? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but I’ve rarely met women who have a blanket dislike for other women generally (though plenty who don’t like me specifically 😁).

Internalised oppression was one term. Handmaiden is more recent. Sadly, many religions incorporate it.

My mother has internalised a fuck ton of misogyny and I find it incredibly wearing. I quite often rephrase what she says. Eg
Dm: oh I suppose your sister is divorcing BIL?
Me: Well he left her, so yes. There's no point in staying married is there.
Dm: I just think he's depressed and needs to see a Dr.
Me: Yes it's a shame he didn't book an appointment. Dsis is also burning out -she's been carrying the load for so long now...

I also just say hmmm a lot. And I've changed my ringtone for when she rings to The Imperial March.

Im a woman and would class myself as quite misogynistic. Have any specific questions?

IME 'internalised misogyny' is often used to dismiss the views of women who disagree with bossy feminists (no doubt somebody will be along to educate me that 'bossy' is a sexist term lol).

For example, I've been in many discussions where women harp on about unequal representation in construction but then make all the excuses under the sun why they couldn't work in such a misogynistic environment. It's usually painfully clear from all the ridiculous stereotyping that most of them have never actually set foot on a jobsite.

When I mention that I actually work in construction (not in the office, actually operating heavy plant and driving trucks etc) and that I love it they often get all defensive and start talking about internalised misogyny. Meh, I just love driving big machines and it pays well so that's what I do. To me it seems the issue is often internalised victimhood tbh.

Yes. Being blamed for being raped. Being treated differently in social settings and expectations for women not being the same for women. Allowing the man to have his voice heard and not the woman. In domestic violence situations, calling the woman unstable or saying the woman is also to blame. Allowing fathers to be absent without any shame, but shaming mothers for struggling who are without any support. List goes on... That is not 'internalised victimhood' as a PP put it, but a reality many women consciously or unconsciously have to deal with in society.

This is a good point.

No. Hope you find the courage to heal.

Typos!

Anyway, maybe I just posted the OP just to vent.
I have never been a victim, always a survivor.

I have never been a victim, always a survivor.

There's nothing wrong with being a victim. There are many power imbalances in life and it's ok to point them out. It's often necessary in order to address them. Some people try to shame others for "playing the victim" but that's often a way to try to shut down discussion of uncomfortable topics.

It took me many years to realize that I was a victim and even more years to feel comfortable acknowledging it even to myself. I didn't want to admit I was powerless in many situations, even ones where it was obvious that I was. "Oh, no, I wasn't a victim when I was sexually abused by adults when I was a child, I could/should have done x, y, z" Making "victim" a bad word reinforces women's desire to be powerful and equal. It weaponizes that desire into a way to keep us silent about power imbalances. It's often especially effective against victims of VAWG bc vey few people want to admit that they were helpless.

I will respond to the original query later, but this kind of stuff makes me rage. I am a victim. I had no choice in what happened to me. Adopting the term "survivor" comes with heaps of baggage which was neither my choice nor something I want to demand of myself when I have PTSD as a result.

I hate that kind of "oh you're using the wrong term" BS. The three men who victimised me did so because I'm a woman, because I was weaker or more incapacitated than them. They did not make a choice to make me into a strong survivor.

I know some people like the term, I think it's just been created to make society feel better about the fact that millions of women have been failed by the CPS and police.

We are all misogynists. We just differ in degrees. We grew up in a society where misogyny was common. The work is to identify our own internalised misogyny and work on that.

For others, where it's overt, I challenge where I feel it's warranted. The book "Invisible Women" opened my eyes to areas of misogyny which I'd not considered previously and also the reasons for it. For those who have not read it, the basis is because men (mostly white, average height, average build men) are treated as a norm, women are seen as "not the norm" and so many aspects of the world are not suited to us. (But it also depending on the issue, it can hurt men not of typical shape, size and other ethnicities.)

It was only after that book that I realised, for 20 years, working in manufacturing, I'd only once received shoes which weren't men's shoes. When I got a high vis vest or, worse, coat, it was male fit. Of course it would be called "unisex" but in reality the sleeves would be 2 inches beyond my wrists at least and the vest would have to be huge to fit over my chest.

It's that kind of internalised misogyny which I think matters more day to day because if someone has a view that I can't do something because I'm a woman, I can challenge it but if there's something so embedded it potentially can impact on the survival risk of that woman (think how proper medical face masks fit in Covid or fall arrest harnesses). It's those kinds of blind spots we need to make visible.

Also as well, if we had as poor a conviction rate for all serious offences as we do for rape, there would be marching in the streets.

Society changes though by challenging attitudes bit by bit. But this is not all women's work and not all a woman problem. if men don't come on board with that too, it won't happen. Still I do like the work that some police forces have done on this. It's targeted for men to challenge men but worth watching as it might suggest things where challenging both men and women in your friend groups is worth doing.

Home - You're Right, That's Wrong

Agree with others, we are brought up to be misogynistic, how could we not be? everything defaults to the male. See a dog , oh look at him he’s cute. I called an animal she and my husband said how do you know it’s female - well how do you know it’s male as you always say he. Err fair point!

Op your first post suggested to me it was a person you were having issues with but later posts suggested it’s the societal ramifications of misogyny. That’s quite big to tackle , small steps I’d say.

Yes

Do you assume a woman in a DV situation cannot be unstable?

Depending on the mood , I either challenge it or go completely uninterested and bored. You spout your shit, but you won’t find an interested audience in me. The challenging comes in the form of asking questions and making them explain their stance. 99% of the time they trail off / change the subject because hearing their own arguments out loud makes them realise how ridiculous they sound.

It's rife and I find it frustrating. It's often the everyday sexism kind of examples. I see it a lot on our local Facebook sites.

The Karen comments. The 'jokes' about wives or just women in general, women laughing along.

Example from last week.... Local police have been doing a campaign to stop harassment of women runners. They pulled a guy over for a chat because he beeped at women running as he drove past. The comments page was full of.. "get a life" "it's a compliment" "go catch some real criminals". It's so regressive.

My mother is also a prime example. Men have it worse. Poor men and their mid life crises. Drives me bonkers.

I hate to say it OP but your own post here is inherently misogynistic.

The “survivor” trope is used to minimise male violence against women, and pits women against each other by creating a further set of imbalances between those that were able to “survive” their abuse and those that apparently are not. It’s all utter bullshit again perpetuated by the patriarchy to make all the women who have already been harmed inflict more harm on themselves and each other by trying to categorise and compete with each other on who ends up a “victim” and who ends up a “survivor”.

You misjudge my intention. A human survivor of human trauma inflicted by another human. DV is gender based but it is still a human infliction that victimises humanity perceived less than, usually male against female.

But you have been a victim. That’s the point: the trope is misogynistic. It is only ever used within the context of male violence against women - why do you think that is?