Lilly Allen & Miquita on abortions

[Cloud987]

Sorry for the DM link - I know it's a rag.

I'm just completely disturbed having read this article and listened to their podcast episode of them talking about having 5 abortions each. This surely is not what the 1967 abortion act was designed for. It's not some preppy girl-power feminist statement to have so many abortions you can't even remember them. And to laugh and sing about it rather than take a somber view or think about how you would make better choices or advise women and girls listening to make other choices for themselves. Or to demand that contraceptive services post-abortion are better to prevent girls from having another one. Am I wrong for thinking this is messed up and completely tasteless? And antithetical to the well-being of women and girls? Am I being excessively prude and judgemental?

Sorry didn't know where else to put this & haven't made a thread before so if I have broken rules or if this just is inappropriate let me know. This has just really got under my skin.

Article link here

Their podcast is called "Miss Me" and is available on BBC sounds - it's on their episode from this week called "Listen Bitch" at the very start. I am not a regular listener to it.

Edit: sorry I meant to post this on feminism chat not S&G discussions

I totally agree with a woman’s right to an abortion. I have had one myself. But they shouldn’t be an alternative to contraception. Having so many that you have lost count is sad.

Lily Allen was incredibly neglected as a child and a teenager. She obviously has a lot of trauma.
I think you can see from how she talks about her children that she is a very good mum and incredibly protective.

Something is wrong if you have had five abortions. Obviously I'm not condemning her right to choose.

It's very sad to hear that someone was so out of control they didn't look after themselves.

Losing count of how many is just grim.

What wordy nonsense. Choicy choice pearl clutching. Try some material analysis.

I'm old skool. "Every child a wanted child.

Dot. Dot. Dot.

By both parents."

Alternatively, as Gloria Steinem once said: 'If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament' https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/oct/17/gloria-steinem-activist-interview-memoir-my-life-on-the-road

The right to choose is without limits or caveats.

not based on how deserving you are, how you got pregnant, how old, rich or famous you are, whether you feel good or not about it.

I will never believe it would have been better for anyone if all these babies had been born.

It’s not something a woman usually does lightly nor boasts about. Vulgar duo.

I agree with you entirely, OP
The woman is disgusting to brag like that about destroying 5 lives.
Most women take abortion seriously. They are not casual about it.

Incredibly irresponsible, disgusting way to behave....and to talk about it so openly in such a blase way especially at 40 years of age makes it even worse!
There are so many ways to avoid accidentally getting pregnant on numerous occasions.
Her attitude glamorises abortion, and makes light of a really serious circumstance that can be incredibly heartbreaking for many women, especially in scenarios of Rape or where there are medical reasons for it to be necessary.
I thought she had grown up now, but clearly I was wrong.

I fully support their right to have abortions, at whatever rate/quantity they choose. For me, that is because it is the best thing not only for the mother not to have the unwanted child, but also for the baby not to be born unwanted.

I find it hard however not to feel sorry for (a) the babies who never came into being but were so unloved and unwanted that their mothers now laugh at their memories; and (b) their living children who will hear their putative siblings being talked about in that way.

So, totally, get all the abortions you want or need and are fully entitled to. Genuinely, no judgment. But I don’t think it’s right to take the right so lightly you laugh about it.

Well, not always. Many times it was the thought of being a young unmarried mother and the shame it would bring on the family which made them unwanted pregnancies. Often the baby was very much wanted. Perhaps without the shame there would have been fewer illegal abortions.

I love Lily and Miquita and I'm pro choice but
I did feel uncomfortable with how flippant they were about the abortions. It's a medical/surgical procedure which can have complications.

That wouldn't be "humorous" to someone who has had a miscarriage of a much-wanted baby, or who has had to have an abortion for medical reasons, or who can't even get pregnant in the first place and cries every time they have a a period. Does no-one think of the effect their flippant utterances may have on others?

The decision to abort is never really black or white. Plenty of people think long and hard about it. You won't even be given one without talking it through with someone first. So why do you think it should be a black and white case for others when it comes to whether they support someone's right to choose? It simply isn't as simple as "you do or you don't".

Many peoples discomfort with abortion doesn’t stem from deep concern for the unborn foetus, it’s rooted in unconscious misogyny. They’ve internalised the idea that women are supposed to be naturally nurturing and self-sacrificing, and they’re horrified when women assert autonomy in ways that defy that expectation.

There are women who desperately want a child and end up with an abortion because the pregnancy is not viable or the fetus’s development is not compatible with life. They may even end up with a large number of abortions in a lifetime as they keep trying. Their medical decisions are completely understandable and must be defended.

also in the high count, women whose lives are so chaotic they can’t manage consistent birth control. Do we really want children born into that environment?

I can well imagine.

No. Before 1967 there were unwanted pregnancies.
There was a stigma about being an unmarried mother. Women procured illegal abortions. Those are my points.

Or they just have mixed feelings about not going ahead with their pregnancy. It’s a life changing decision for women and therefore not something many people feel flippantly about.
Having an abortion doesn’t mean someone isn’t nurturing. But neither does it mean they don’t think deeply and carefully about making that decision.

She didn’t destroy 5 lives ffs. They hadn’t turned into babies yet!

Blimey. So you are pro-choice but only until it starts to offend you.

would I do it? Probably not. Should she - YES IF SHE CHOOSES TO.

Perhaps after the 3rd she should have been made to go through with it and had multiple children she didn’t want? Yeah that works.

The only thing that I would be concerned about would be the level of unprotected sex that they were having. If you can get pregnant you can also contract STIs and they can have long term conceqences.

Why not asset autonomy through using contraception? They both have free access to contraception options and protection from STDs as a right unlike many women in the world.

Sad. I think this shows every bit what kind of human being they really are.

I've never had an abortion but I've had a lot of miscarriages. I don't understand anyone who thinks having an abortion is preferable to just using contraception properly in the first place. If you've had 5+ unplanned pregnancies you're clearly not using contraception.