Queerness

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Is anyone else bothered by this becoming a catch-all term?

I’ve had relationships with both men and women, but never felt the need to define myself that way, I feel my sexual and romantic life is fairly private. I suppose in a way I feel both straight and gay rather than one or the other so never wanted to claim the term bisexual either as I then felt hemmed in by the LGBTQ+ label, when for all functional purposes I move through the world as a straight woman.

I’m not anti gay culture, loved a gay bar in my youth and still love gay books and films etc.

I just feel queer has come to define everything, either you’re in the gay and trans soup or you’re not, and it’s quite flattening to the multiplicity of the human experience. I have basically nothing in common with a man who has only been in sexual and romantic relationships with men.

It seems to me that the queer world itself wants to ungender everything. But try asking a gay man on Grindr to fuck a “man” with a vagina and see how far you get.

can anyone relate?

ok, well maybe you need to relinquish control of how others use words to describe themselves? It isnt impacting your use of words/labels, and your labels still have meaning
maybe some people dont feel 100% gay? or 100% lesbian? maybe they prefer a different word, maybe there will be another word in the future that we havent even heard yet
Are you going to police their expression?? is that what "liberation" meant for you??

No one has control of language, its fluid and ever changing.
You dont like it? Fine. Doesnt make the people who use it lesser than you.

Eh? Oh course Queer people are doing these things.

The PP we are responding to said that previous generations of non-normative people had "experimented with free love, androgyny and communal living", and suggested that today's non-normative youth were not contributing anything similar. We were pointing out that Queer folk today are living non-normative lives in ways that are radical and challenging of social norms.

TBH, Mumsnet detests radical lives and the challenging of social norms, so I was surprised when the PP highlighted "experimenting with free love, androgyny and communal living" as positive things. (By the way, there have been communities doing these things throughout history, and many in today's Queer community also live communally, androgynously and polyamourously).

But the idea that Queer folk don't contribute significantly to our professions (or have hobbies, as one PP said!) is just bizarre. Of course some of the folk doing science research to find cures for cancer are Queer. Of course some of the authors producing great works of literature are Queer. I'm not sure how you arrived at your conclusions.

Ahahahahahahahha

This is comedy gold coming from team "respect people's pronouns" and "trans women are women" and "if you're not trans you're cis".

So they get to choose what words they use to refer to themselves, and also what words they use to refer to us, and also what words we use to refer to them, and also what words we use to refer to ourselves, because they are super special queer people, and the rest of us just obey them because we are boring cishet people with cishet privilege who need to shut up and listen to trans/queer people.

Amirite?

Lots of Queer folk are LGB...

I think lots of young people like the word queerness because it's something that's easy to identify into even if you aren't really L, G or B. According to queer theory I could claim 'queerness' because I've had sexual contact with women but I'm not L or B so I wouldn't. It also encompasses people who are straight but 'identify as non binary' etc. It's not a statement of sexual orientation it's a statement of identity and I don't think that move is a good direction to go in. I know a teenage girl raised by two women who broke up with her boyfriend recently in part because she wants to embrace her queerness more. But she's straight, and uncomfortable with that fact because of the circle she grew up in (very queer identity heavy). It's a bit fucked really.

You're repeatedly missing the point.

There is absolutely nothing radical about what they are doing and it would be really super if they could stop banging on about it constantly. It's boring. And conformist, ironically.

If they're L, G or B they don't need the queer label because they are actually same sex attracted.

I would say just don't let it bother you. The fact that you're furious that someone might think they're special...have a think about why you're having that reaction.

You don't understand Queerness, and that's OK, but just jog on. It's not for you.

Queer spaces and Queer lives are wonderful,

You enjoy your spaces and your lives, literally no one is stopping you.

You're not oppressed, you're not different, there are no rights you don't have.

If hanging around in a special queer space with other special queer people makes you happy, knock yourself out.

But pretending you're part of some oppressed minority is just ridiculous. And appropriating a word that was used as a slur for actual gay people is completely tasteless. But you do you, I guess. Just don't expect the rest of us to care.

Hard disagree.

It's important to me to "label" myself a lesbian as its so often brushed under the carpet/dismissed/taken over.

Look at all the "lesbian" groups now taken over by men.

i dont understand the vitriol of some people not choosing to adopt L G or B?

and the whole "oh they are super special queer!"... well what's wrong with a bit of queer joy??

im off to work, with queer colleagues who are in no way what has been portrayed on here lol.

It's not about choosing to be L, G or B.

Your sexuality isn't something you choose. Surely this is fairly basic stuff. If you are same sex attracted you are either L, G or B.

Anyone can be "queer" because it doesn't mean anything.

I'm so glad I'm off to work with people who don't bore the arse off everyone talking about their identities.

Humans are either opposite sex attracted, same sex attracted or both sex attracted.

This covers everyone.

Queer is a slur that gay and lesbian people heard as someone kicked their heads in.

Queer Joy?

Queer Theory is about disassociating the person with all of their natural support systems, including the family, using grooming tactics.

I'd be very, very careful about getting so embroiled in this cult that you think it is harmless. It was invented to be harmful from the get go.

I really do wish you wouldn't care!

its not choosing to BE L G or B.... its choosing whether to use those terms to describe yourself, and ive already given some examples of people who dont use them

Dont misrepresent my argument, and dont be disingenuous. You arent the only LGBT person in this thread, we can disagree about the term "queer" and it doesnt make me less part of the community.

also my colleagues literally never talk about this, we have jobs lol

If a significant minority of people banged on about trainspotting constantly and had a trainspotting awareness month where the entire corporate world put trains in their logos and put on trainspotting awareness training sessions at work which you were expected to attend and you were constantly being told to find new ways of being more inclusive of trainspotters you would probably be a bit narked by it as well tbh.

If someone who is actually same sex attracted is choosing to reject the terms L, G or B and instead refer to themselves using a term which was used as a homophobic slur and which also includes straight people, doesn't that seem a little regressive to you?

And it's fine for you or anyone else to claim a label if you want one. I guess I wouldn't be in a group based on just my sexuality anyway - that's my point. And we have that choice now, because of the battles fought in the past.

@sadmillenial its also worth saying, for those who are saying that anything but L G or B doesnt count, that most young people prefer "pansexual" to bisexual?

Yes, that's so they can pretend that sex is not binary. Gotta queer those boundaries!

What is this thing with referring to people as 'folk'? You get 'queer folk' or 'trans folk' but you don't really hear 'gay folk' or 'lesbian folk'.

Pansexuals are just bisexuals who failed biology.

....or have considered and accepted the difference between sex and gender, and have a sexuality that isn't defined by you or anybody else but themselves?

The arrogance of anyone telling someone else how to describe their own sexual orientation..... jeez

To me Queer is as offensive as if white people dressed up as black people and called themselves by the N word.
I wince when I hear it. It tells me that the person using it has little respect or understanding for those who have gone before.

There are only two sexes and everyone is either one or the other.

You cannot be attracted to people of more than two sexes, because such a thing does not exist.

How people choose to describe themselves is irrelevant to that basic fact.

If you define your sexual orientation by subjective categories such as gender identity then you deserve critique IMO. You can't be sexually attracted to a gender identity.