Queerness

[Colinfromaccounts]

Is anyone else bothered by this becoming a catch-all term?

I’ve had relationships with both men and women, but never felt the need to define myself that way, I feel my sexual and romantic life is fairly private. I suppose in a way I feel both straight and gay rather than one or the other so never wanted to claim the term bisexual either as I then felt hemmed in by the LGBTQ+ label, when for all functional purposes I move through the world as a straight woman.

I’m not anti gay culture, loved a gay bar in my youth and still love gay books and films etc.

I just feel queer has come to define everything, either you’re in the gay and trans soup or you’re not, and it’s quite flattening to the multiplicity of the human experience. I have basically nothing in common with a man who has only been in sexual and romantic relationships with men.

It seems to me that the queer world itself wants to ungender everything. But try asking a gay man on Grindr to fuck a “man” with a vagina and see how far you get.

can anyone relate?

I don't know what it means anymore.

Yes, it's a homophobic slur, and the gay men from the 60s, 70s and 80s who were called 'po#f' and 'f#g' and 'que#r' while they were being beaten senseless say they don't like the word 'que#r' being used at all. People should have respect for that generation and not use the word at all.

I relate to your discomfort with “queer.” It’s become a vague catch-all that flattens complex realities into one ideological soup. Not everyone wants, or should have, to define themselves under a single banner just because they’ve had varied experiences.

But there’s tension in your stance. You describe your sexual life as private and say you don’t want to claim the label bisexual, yet you also draw a sharp line between yourself and gay people, saying you have “nothing in common” with a man who’s only been with men. I’d argue most women—lesbian, bi, or straight—don’t share much in common with gay men’s experiences either. But you’ve also been with both men and women, even if you move through the world as a straight woman. So your experiences do overlap, in some ways, with non-straight realities, even if you choose not to label them. Shared orientation isn’t only about who you sleep with; it’s also about navigating a world that can still be hostile to non-heterosexual desire.

You’re absolutely right, though, that much of “queer” discourse pretends bodies and boundaries don’t matter. Your Grindr example is perfect: desire isn’t infinitely flexible. Bodies are real. And lesbians have been particularly harmed by this flattening, pressured to accept male bodies as “women,” erasing female same-sex attraction altogether.

So yes, the queer “soup” deserves critique. But we can reject ideological flattening while still defending the reality of sex-based differences and same-sex attraction, without making those the entirety of one’s identity.

If you don't like it, don't use it. Queer has lots of connotations about being non-normative in a very positive way. If you see yourself as more normative, knock yourself out and don't use this term. I know lots of straight-laced, middle of the road gay people who are the opposite of queer. It means more than just gay.

You're...bisexual. Surely you've heard of this term before.

No, absolutely not. The Q in LGBTQ most definitely stands for Queer. Why does it bother you? Let people be different. God, on Mumsnet, you want everyone to be so fucking normal.

Wow, scathing. I guess that people being different from the norm really bothers you, huh? Sounds very much like a you problem.

My eldest son, a 23yo man, in a three year relationship with a woman, is QUEER (all caps on purpose). They go on marches and wear badges and he goes by they/them. They both tell me that they suffer oppression for being in a queer relationship. I mostly nod and smile.

I just remember him telling me once when he was at secondary school that for him and his peers ‘identifying as straight is social suicide’.

He has never had a male partner (I don’t know about his sex life obvs but he’s always had a girlfriend since about 15 with no real gaps). The queerness comes from the fact he has long hair and wears black nail varnish I think. In my day he’d have been goth or grunge, much like his dear old mum, how dull.

I’ve had lots of lovely sex with men and women but I’ve been married to a man for a long time and don’t identify as bisexual these days. Certainly not queer. It’s all a bit silly.

Queer doesn’t just mean sexuality anymore. It includes straight people now. Anyone who wants to think of themselves as a bit ‘non-conforming’ ( even whilst following the most conformity enforcing modern movement, ie gender theory) calls themselves queer.

It’s essentially now a term that was created for marketing purposes to try to ‘grow’ the trans rights movement by including as many people as possible within it.

Not everyone wants, or should have, to define themselves under a single banner just because they’ve had varied experiences.

...and nobody does have to define themselves that way...

The way the OP describes their way of thinking (along with lots of other very normative gay posters) wouldn't at all align with Queerness, and they would likely very much not enjoy being in Queer spaces with Queer people.

”Queer” usually seems to mean, married to a bloke but kissed a girl at Uni.

I think the disparaging way @DeskJotter uses ther term ‘normal’, and its variants, tells you everything you need to know about the term ‘queer’. It’s for people who want to consider themselves edgy and interesting and to look down on those they consider ‘boring’ as they are ‘normal’. It meets their need for an internal sense of status.

Laurie Penny isn't different from the norm. She is incredibly ordinary.

By that measure I would be more "queer" than most people calling themselves queer. But I don't call myself queer because (a) it's a homophobic slur, and (b) I'm a white middle class university educated home owning professional heterosexual married woman who (beyond being a woman) has never been oppressed or marginalised in any way. Exactly like Laurie Penny. It would be fucking embarrassing at my age to identify into an oppressed category like it's some sort of exclusive club.

Yes, if you're in an ordinary heterosexual relationship but one of you uses they/them pronouns, you're both queer apparently.

She's not. Why are you so invested in thinking everyone is "normal"? Why does it irk you that some people are queer?

I don't think everyone is normal. And I didn't say normal anyway, I said ordinary.

What is special about Laurie Penny?

She's a very ordinary, almost middle aged woman in a completely unremarkable heterosexual marriage with a man.

People who call themselves queer ARE the norm, that's the point.

Indeed.

Why would you call yourself Q if you are in fact L, G, B or T?

If you are not L, G, B or T you are, by process of elimination, heterosexual and not trans.

So how are you different from the "cishet" people you like to sneer at?

As PP have printed out, "Queer" is the identity du jour who have a very real fear that they are, in fact, very normal. Thats why spaces that used to be LGB, and are now "Queer' have lost all diversity. Just lots of the same people with the same clothes, hair, politics etc. desperately trying to be interesting.

I'm of an age where 'queer' was a nasty, homophobic term of abuse, and I don't think I will ever consider it not to be. The fact that it has been appropriated by anyone who is not gay, as in a homosexual man, is hugely disrespectful IMO. But it has become a useful indicator of the type of person you are dealing with, usually part of the crowd that insist on announcing their pronouns.

Not at all. Queer is a label for non-normative people. I'm not sure why you're struggling to understand this.

Because Queer means something different from - but often overlapping with - LGB.

A number of Lesbian posters on this thread, don't describe themselves as Queer, for example.

Go on then. What does it mean?

It is akin to living a non-normative sexuality or gender expression. It can also include non-monogamous lifestyles.