Transwoman on women's ward

[Sallycinnamum]

Had a minor gynae procedure today but nevertheless was very anxious leading up to it.

Was wheeled back to the day ward to be greeted quite literally (started waving at me) by a transwoman in the bed opposite me.

There was no doubt he was a man and being completely immobile due to a spinal anaesthetic with no underwear on I asked the nurse to completely close the curtains so he couldn't look directly at me.

Spoke to a nurse who confirmed it wasn't a mixed ward.

I am so upset. I felt so vulnerable especially as I couldn't walk so had to pee into a bedpan in clear earshot of him.

I've emailed PALS but I feel so bloody fed up of it all. Had a man next to me in the M&S lingerie changing rooms a few weeks ago and was made to feel like a total bigot when I complained to the staff.

The only way to "live as a woman" is to actually be female, which this person is not.

The vicious attacks and slurs on women who object are very telling.

A transwoman is placed on the women's.ward because he objects to being on the men's ward, ostensibly.

How.come he gets to ask not to be among males and is listened to, while the women are told they're bigots for asking for the same thing?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

Not sure if that's paywalled? But it was discussed in the House of Lords.

For the poster asking whether a patient requesting same sex chaperone could be assigned a transwoman - in theory yes.

This woman was called 'transphobic' for asking for same sex care:

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/12/09/hospital-apologises-to-rape-victim-for-branding-her-request-for-same-sex-breast-screening-medic-as-transphobic/

There should not be any males on a women's ward.

The law, and the government, are clear.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68923861.amp

The NHS needs to sort this the fuck out.

Gah, thank you. Sorry @UnlockedXCX !

If you find it so disgusting reading fact based comments based on firm knowledge of biological reality then you know what to do.

She is female. Therefore, why should she be forced into a side room because someone else has taken a dislike? She has every right to be on that ward as someone who identified as trans female.

Do people really still believe this obvious nonsense?

Yep, cos that’s what people do in hospital wards isn’t it? Don’t believe for 1 second there was any waving going on but it adds drama to this story.

This is indeed an issue. And even Genuine Occupational Requirements have been under pressure.

Trans woman Dr Upton in the Peggie tribunal said he would offer himself as physician to a woman who had asked for single sec care and it would be up to her to object - and if she did she’d be transphobic. The GMC’s fitness to practice guidance is woefully inadequate on this. They say no Drs should have to declare private information about their protected characteristics. Which is fine except mostly we can all see these with our own eyes - we see the wheelchair (yes I know there are invisible disabilities) or theres a point where pregnancy is obvious. Just as we can usually tell a person’s sex or race or age. So IMO the health regulators need to sort this out and advise their members on what constitutes criminal assault - medical procedure without proper consent

If you think someone waving sounds unlikely, wait til you hear about the man who believed he was a woman.

Unfortunately you can’t tell who is a threat and who isn’t. Just one of the many reasons for keeping males out of female safe spaces. And why weren’t you offered a chaperone for that examination - from your description it seems more than warranted.

Of a course a trans woman, complete with penis and testicles, is not female.

What on earth do you think the word "female" means?

It has nothing to do with identity. It means exactly the same thing in humans as it does in all other mammals.

We live in a society where people who actually are female suffer discrimination and abuse because of their sex every single day.

By expanding the definition of female to include male you are stripping it of all meaning and depriving the actual female sex of a word to describe themselves. And you cannot effectively fight for the rights of a group you cannot even identify or name. I believe this is a big part of why women in the US, the birthplace of gender ideology where so-called feminists insist that "woman" is merely a gender identity, lack basic sex based rights such as abortions and paid maternity leave.

You do a real disservice to women by force teaming them with men who are playing pretend. And as much as I believe a man who has had his penis removed is still not a woman, and that we shouldn't be encouraging these dangerous surgeries which do nothing to actually change one's sex, a man who has been happily living with his cock and balls for the last 45 years is clearly not so dysphoric that he can't be placed on a mixed sex ward.

A woman recovering from a gynaecological procedure on a female only ward has an entirely reasonable expectation that the environment will be free of male patients, even ones who believe they are living as women. And if she requests a female doctor or nurse, she also has an entirely reasonable expectation that the female doctor or nurse she has requested will actually be female, not a male person who believes they are living as a woman. Having a hysteroscopy is part of living as a woman. Wearing lipstick is not.

In any case, your opinion isn't relevant here. The Supreme Court judgment confirms that for the purposes of single sex hospital wards this patient is a man and his presence was against the law.

I have had several surgical procedures recently and on each occasion, on return from theatre I’ve been waved at by patients in adjacent beds as an acknowledgement of my return. I’ve also engaged in it, acknowledging the same for others. A small act of support and kindness, and very sad that you think it so odd as to not be believable.

Oh hi @holamuchgusto have you met my friend, the Supreme Court?

Exactly. A YouGov survey showed a third of all people in the UK mistakenly think a transwoman was born female. There is a lot of confusion around terms, and this is by design by TRAs. It's a feature, not a bug. Too many people do not understand that transwomen were born the male sex (and remain that sex for life via their chromosomes). And confuse changing 'gender identity' with sex. It's so frustrating. Something that we all knew as children, that there are two sexes; male and female, and you can't change sex, has now been turned on it's head. So many trans defenders seem to genuinely have no idea at all what a transwoman is. Society has been dumbed down. And all to placate males and the patriarchy and their fetishes. When you've got someone on here arguing a person that was born male with male chromosomes, male DNA and male sex organs is a 'female', you know we've really lost it.

hola by saying this was a female woman you are trying to erase their trans identity.

I don't think that's right, I think this person has every right to identity as trans and male without you deciding they aren't actually trans.

Or you are confusing sex and gender.

Being male they should not be on a female ward. Female ward is for females of all gender identities, and male wards are for males of all gender identities.

@holamuchgusto

It’s not about offending people (we’re not the ones with the ego problem), or having a minority opinion.

It’s the fact that you don’t understand the law, that's the problem.

I might like drinking and then driving at 100mph and that’s a minority opinion but more importantly, I’d still be a serious risk to others and I’d be breaking the law. 🤷🏻‍♀️

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2023/08/07/clarity-matters-how-placating-lobbyists-obscures-public-understanding-of-sex-and-gender/

Someone up thread suggested it might be a bed management issue and that there was nowhere else to put him at the time.

Bit of a coincidence that the man was a transvestite, and not lets say a manly man such as Pete the plumber.

Funny that.

If that was my post about bed management - thats not what it said! Hopefully you’re thinking of someone else…

Sorry Knotty, i suspect that will be the excuse if OP complains, so just pointing out a response to that.

I think the key word for here is “return” suggesting you’d already interacted with them? and were they same or opposite sex? The trans thing isn’t that relevant to this question for me.

Context changes things - if I were not feeling covered up/private and a man in the opposite bed to me (who I didn’t know and hadn’t spoken to) was looking over and waved, it could feel intrusive. It would depend on lots of things but I can see how the OP ight not like it - other people might not be bothered but that’s not the point.

If I’ve had a gynae procedure then I don’t like the idea of having to worry that I’m undressed or uncovered in front of any male patients - or any patients really - so I’d rather they weren’t looking at me and the wave does very much mean I can’t pretend they’re ignoring me… iyswim?

Well, since there can be no reasonable expectation that random members of the public (eg patients) aren't dodgy, and they haven't had DBS checks or safeguarding because they are patients, not staff members, then no - as a female patient on a gynae ward, I would not be concerned about the sex of a staff member (or at least not in the same way , and if I wanted a female staff member to do an intimate check or examination I would request one, as is my right). I certainly WOULD be concerned about a random male patient on a GYNAE ward, yes. Absolutely no way of knowing if he's a wrong'un or not, and that's before we get into issues of mutual dignity and privacy. He should not be there.

Thank you @ArabellaScott
Yeah it was paywalled, but I read the hospital’s excuse.
Never mind the CCTV, I guess.
It doesn’t matter how old you are or where you are or who you are - women (and girls like I was) have to be on the lookout for predators.
And it happened to me in 1973 - I suspect it’s been happening for thousands of years.
Thank you for taking the time to look that up for me.
Stay safe. ❤️