Transwoman on women's ward

[Sallycinnamum]

Had a minor gynae procedure today but nevertheless was very anxious leading up to it.

Was wheeled back to the day ward to be greeted quite literally (started waving at me) by a transwoman in the bed opposite me.

There was no doubt he was a man and being completely immobile due to a spinal anaesthetic with no underwear on I asked the nurse to completely close the curtains so he couldn't look directly at me.

Spoke to a nurse who confirmed it wasn't a mixed ward.

I am so upset. I felt so vulnerable especially as I couldn't walk so had to pee into a bedpan in clear earshot of him.

I've emailed PALS but I feel so bloody fed up of it all. Had a man next to me in the M&S lingerie changing rooms a few weeks ago and was made to feel like a total bigot when I complained to the staff.

If having long hair and wearing lipstick for 45+ years makes you a woman I assume Miss Piggy is no long a) a puppet b) a pig.

Following this thread with interest as I too want to know what PALS comes back with! Obviously it's a completely unacceptable situation and while I know the odd mixed sex ward might have to happen because of staffing from time to time, legally it shouldn't be happening, and they certainly shouldn't pretend it's single sex when it clearly isn't, the day you were in.

OP, you are a warrior, emailing them while still recovering in bed. I recently had a hysteroscopy under GA and I'm so glad these options are now more commonly available to us - I did have to request one and was told I'd have to wait another few weeks but in the end it was just another 3 weeks. not ideal but not as bad as other cases I've heard of. Hope all results come back fine.

EXACTLY.

I had a transwoman friend for many years. I decided to step away after a long time because they started to make me uncomfortable. They would speak badly about their sister having periods and criticise her for being in bed for days. But I thought to myself, how would you ever know what it’s like? I thought it was cruel, and it illustrated the complete lack of empathy that could occur in some trans women’s views about biological women. So this is another reason why I don’t feel comfortable with them in women’s spaces - particularly in a healthcare context.

I don't understand why this shit is still going on
We had the court ruling
It's clear now (for those that didn't understand before) what a woman is
So why the fuck was he there
God this makes me mad

I didnt think we had single sex wards anymore.

I just returned from hosp after suffering a cardiac arrest and all 3 wards i was on were mixed.

I thought womens issues were single sex wards

It's why there has been so much footstamping tantruming from TRA's

It wouldn’t concern me personally but completely understand that’s not everyone’s view.

I hope that PALS give you a satisfactory response and take your concerns seriously, OP.

Ok, so women supposedly waving to each other on wards is an act of support/a kindness you say.
Whereas a trans female waving is an act of intimidation causing the op to feel vulnerable.

Right that seems logical.

Annoyingly, the NHS seems to have been the worst for doubling down and ignoring the SC ruling. Its only a matter of time before something happens and they get sued.

It's really baffling how so many don't understand the need for same-sex spaces.

I had gynaecological surgery a couple of years ago. Blood everywhere. Pads. Enemas. I wouldnt have wanted even DH to see me like that.

Not because I am scared of him. But because of my dignity. Do you not get that @Jewel52? Even if this thread isn't genuine, women need single sex spaces.

I’ve had 3 children and gynaecological problems linked to menopause. I’ve found the treatment of female patients within the NHS to be pretty negligent including:-
minimisation of pain
not picking up on complications
overspeaking by male doctors
inappropriate use of student doctors
lack of female medical practitioners in predominantly female medicine
etc

To me these are quantifiable risks to women and I wholeheartedly applaud those who work to highlight and address them. By comparison the artificial and non quantifiable “threat” being posed by trans females who are supposedly demanding to be in single sex spaces is not visible to me.

i am not on that bandwagon because it’s focusing on an anthill when I can see a fucking great mountain.

They’re not “trans females” @Jewel52 those are the women identifying as men. Keep up.

Men aren’t women in law and in reality, let alone female.

They are not "trans females", they are male, like men.

If the OP had had the misfortune to be raped by the trans woman being accommodated illegally on a female only ward, she would not have been the first. That is not, by any reasonable person's standards, an "anthill". It is part of the same mountain you are referring to. The mountain of women being treated as second class citizens whose needs can be ignored.

So much whataboutery. You can care about all those things that affect women only, and still want women to have space away from males (not trans females as you put it) for privacy and dignity at the bare minimum. You don’t mind a male with different identity feels in your personal space? Jolly good for you. You don’t however, get to minimise the feelings of those who don’t, for whatever reason, nor do you get to give away their consent to having a single sex space.

Why is this a difficult concept to grasp for some?! It’s infuriating.

It is if they weren’t supposed to be there and they know it.

lack of female medical practitioners in predominantly female medicine

@Jewel52 when you say female her do you actually mean female or do you include transwomen.

If the number of female practitioners in female medicine stayed the same but there was a large increase in transwomen practising female medicine would you consider that to be problem solved?

I really think it is possible to care about many things at a time @Jewel52. If the NHS does not know what a woman is, how can they help us? The SC has helpfully clarified.

I woke up to the welcome news of abortion being decriminalised. Biological sex still matters for half the world.

To take an example here in Scotland - the Forensic Medical Examiner Services Bill (Scotland).

While it was being discussed in Parliament, Johann Lamont put forward the 'six words' amendment, intended to clarify that when sex was stated in the Bill, it meant sex and not gender. So that female rape survivors, when being examined by a Forensic Medical Examiner, could request (not demand, merely request) that the Examiner was female.

This was denounced (by various MSP's and various Governmental funded organisations) as simply unacceptable. Bigoted. Transphobic.

Medical misogyny is a thing, agreed. And the minimisation and demonisation of women who need (for various reasons) single sex spaces and services is part of that.

Men's feelings being deemed more important than women's feelings, safety and dignity. It is as it ever was.

I’ve had these types of procedures too with my pain being minimised, overspeaking by doctors, inappropriate use of students etc. in fact, I’ve experienced everything you’ve described and it didn’t bother me one bit! I’m not sure why you’d choose to jump on that bandwagon when I thought it was all perfectly reasonable!
😜

Just catching up on the thread. Having spoken to a number of friends and trusted colleagues this morning, they're as outraged as you all are.

If I get an unsatisfactory response from PALS I will escalate it.

As far as I could tell the unit, which had a number of bays, was not overly busy so he could've been placed elsewhere.

A trans female? You mean a transman? 🤔

If you actually mean a transwoman then they are all male and remain male always. Nothing they can do would make them stop being male.

The issue is the maleness. Identifying as trans doesn’t nullify the being male.

I find it interesting that we supposedly need single sex spaces where women can be solely with other biological women in some form of safety and solidarity displaced given the level of antagonism that arises on here once biological female dares to challenge the prevailing Mumsnet view on this.

Secondly, the idea of vulnerability only arises if you buy into the view that someone is identifying as female but still acting in some kind of predatory way towards biological women. E.g the op literally saw the patient, the patient supposedly waved and they immediately perceived a threat. That’s what I meant by not quantified. The threat came from her joining lots of dots and working on assumption. Isn’t that the definition of prejudice? The op could’ve assumed that this person was just going about the business of recovering in a hospital but instead knit together a Mumsnet worthy anecdote.

Outside of Mumsnet this isn’t a thing. I work in a female dominated environment, have 3 sisters, belong to clubs etc. No one is talking about this.