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Feminism: chat

Conciliatory Conversation On gender

1000 replies

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 02:43

Hello!

In the last few months I have been reflecting on the transgender and feminism debate and I feel I've got a few things to share with you on it from a perspective perhaps you wont maybe often hear.

To preface and explain, I am a transgender woman/female and I'm writing here today not to create any kind of argument or discord but because I am here to say that I think there are things that my side of the floor has gotten wrong.

I want to start from a position of saying that I can understand why some of you feel erased or afraid. I dont say that in a patronising way; I say that from a position of being fully periceved as female in society and I often to feel quite vunerable because of that in certain situations just like I imagine many of you do aswell.

I started down this road from hearing about how a 'A woman is person who says they are a woman'. I must admit I never quite got it. It makes no sense but yet, there are many transgender people and allies who say this like it has any kind of meaning. Just like when they also say that 'woman' is defined by a certain set of catagories etc. Its always bothered me and I didnt know why. For me, the more I have medically tranisitioned to female, the more Ive began to understand the word and defintion of female cannot be just removed from the term woman.

Now, I suspect this is where most of you reading this will be in decent agreement of. However I suspect what I say next will cause more issues. I believe myself to be female not just because of my physical aspect having been changed through medical transition (albeit its not a perfect process) but also because I believe my brain structure to have formed female in the sex differences between male and female likely at birth. There are quite numerous studies that do back this up to an okay but emerging degree and I am also aware that there also a few that dont say that exactly but say my brain formed in a kind of third way. Either way, I think it is clear from these studies that my brain developed differently to that of a male and it has manifested itself so I am quite closely alligned with being female.

To me, I feel like this makes a me kind of intersex person but perhaps in a different kind of way than we usually think of the term intersex. Though, through my medical transition obviously estrogen has, at least for me, solidified my mind to that much more towards female.

With this in mind, I find myself looking at the world as a woman but a woman who came with unique challenges and hurdles that are difficult to explain. For example, often I have been accused of saying its wrong that GRS gives me a vagina and have often been shouted at and saying im just sexualising it. However for me, the vagina isnt and wasnt the main source of my distress. The main source of my distress is that I will never have ovaries and will never have children and be a biological mother. I have never been interested in having a child as a male in anyway.

For me, it reminds me that I am not just a straight forward female and many will not accept me. After some deep reflection I think that I have also accepted that I will have to go through hurdles and I will have to remove my male form in such a succfient manner that I can be accepted by other women in certain areas. With that in mind I have also come to accept that self indentifcation shouldnlt be accepted. That tears at me because I wish I lived in that ideal world. But, as a woman who is only attracted to men, I understand frankly just how dangerous some of them can be. But ive come to the conclusion that if we keep pushing for this we are only making it harder for everyone and it will only lead to further division, more toxicity and we will just tear oursevles apart.

I do look at my rights from five years ago and I look at them now and see how they have reduced from prisons putting people such as as me in mens prisions, to the recent SC ruling, sports associations banning us. I do truly think that most women do and have historically accepted women like me but I also understand that came with agreements and understandings. Understandings which I think have been overstepped in the last ten years.

While I dont and will never accept calling me a man; I can understand why some of you that are reading this may have gotten fed up and stopped caring. I suppose what I am really trying to say is, can we all start again? If I can accept that women (including myself) need protections in some areas and I can accept the need for medicalising, the dropping of self identification, the need for due process in changing your sex legally can you accept that Im not a man? Can you accept that calling me certain things and the misgendering, using terms such as Trans identified Male is actually causing more harm than it is good?

Can we not as women actually just get our heads together and work out a decent solution? I do believe we might remain with some differences. For example I do believe a woman is a person who was born with a female gender identity by which I mean the overall average structure of the brain and therefore mind. And I do understand you will use a defintion to be defined by your anatomy. But I do believe that actually both of these can be true. While I cant be 100 percent true to your defintion I have tried to be because of where my defintion has led me and I understand how difficult that may be for someone who has all the correct anatomy to understand. But I have tried to understand how you feel so I am trying to ask for the same.

Finally, thank you for reading my long message. I am very nervous to be leaving it. Please can I ask you from refraining to calling me names and refering to me as a man, this is a request and not a demand. I have very much put myself out there with this and I hope that what is reflected back to me is the same spirit in which I wrote this.

Thank you

P.s I hovered over the 'Post' button for about five minutes before clicking it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:05

SpidersAreShitheads · 24/04/2025 07:03

We have been erased.

We have been spoken over.

The positions set aside for women have been handed over to trans women, many of whom who have benefitted from a lifetime of male privilege.

Women have been assaulted in prisons, hospitals, toilets. In spaces that were supposed to be classed as single sex. The people doing the assaulting were trans-identifying individuals who had a male body.

I'm genuinely and truly sorry for any discomfort you're not feeling. I appreciate yours is not the easiest path. I don't know you, but you might be a genuine person who means no harm to women. But you might not. And therein lies the problem.

It's bad enough that no one cared about our feelings, our dignity, and our privacy. I mean, we all remember women who had been raped being told to "reframe their trauma".

But when it comes to our safety, I'm sorry, but no. One woman harmed is one woman too many.

The trans community needs to campaign for its own solutions that don't trample on the rights of other groups. I understand that's difficult but women have been collateral up until now, and enough is enough.

There is no biological basis for a male-bodied individual feeling "like a woman". I support and respect your right to live however you want, and I wish you all the happiness in the world.

However, biological men who transition retain the same rates of offending. And studies suggest there is a higher proportion of sexual predators among the trans community. There's plenty of non-scientific, anecdotal evidence to back that up, but for now, here's the stats.

We need to be able to talk about this without being shut down as transphobic or bigoted. However you think you feel, your biology is a fact that gives you a physical advantage over biological women, and that means we are not the same. Sorry.

Ive already pointed out the maths behind this.
Really bad math due to sample size biases, they are taking roughly 30 million for both Men and Women then cutting that down to 48,000 for trans women people.
It would be better to use a small group of similar size for comparisons.
——————
Also to point out:
92 / 48,000 = 0.0019%
So it’s just them trying to present data in a biased way.

OP posts:
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:05

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:03

Exactly. But yet, Im here and I had the courage to do it all the same. And we all need that courage. We really do. Im tired of hatred.

Nobody here is calling you names or threatening you. We've all been perfectly civil. And you won't get banned from this forum simply for expressing an opposing point of view.

Nellodee · 24/04/2025 07:06

Actually, we would get banned.

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:06

EmpressaurusKitty · 24/04/2025 07:04

I urge you to put yourself in amongst a crowd of transgender people and say these things because then you will appricaite just how difficult it is to do something like this.

I’ve been surrounded by a crowd of yelling transgender people. Fortunately the police turned up because the three of us were very scared.

You might not be aware that when Venice Allan organised one of the earliest events to talk about this, she invited Stonewall to give their viewpoint. Instead of engaging the TRAs bullied the venue into cancelling, beat up a 60-year-old woman on the way to the new venue & then stood round it shouting BURN IT DOWN! I know because I was there.

How’s that for conciliation?

mmm and do you not think this happens both ways?
Because I can assure you that it does.

OP posts:
FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:06

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:05

Nobody here is calling you names or threatening you. We've all been perfectly civil. And you won't get banned from this forum simply for expressing an opposing point of view.

Jesus

OP posts:
Nellodee · 24/04/2025 07:06

Though that would probably come after the rape and death threats

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:07

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:06

mmm and do you not think this happens both ways?
Because I can assure you that it does.

Can you link us to even one example of trans people being treated in this way by feminists?

Katkins17 · 24/04/2025 07:07

Funny how this still reeks of male entitlement and a victim mentality, without any real care or empathy about the real adverse effects that trans identifying men have on women.

theres a hell of a lot of ‘me’s’ in your post.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:08

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:06

Jesus

You seem to think that being civil means we have to agree with you that you are a woman.

And therein lies the problem.

Nellodee · 24/04/2025 07:08

Do not lie to us. In this country, trans activists attack women. Women do not attack trans activists.

BabyOrca · 24/04/2025 07:08

Can you answer my question on page 5 please, I genuinely want to know!

EmpressaurusKitty · 24/04/2025 07:08

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:05

Nobody here is calling you names or threatening you. We've all been perfectly civil. And you won't get banned from this forum simply for expressing an opposing point of view.

And we don’t carry placards calling for transpeople to be killed. We don’t wield colourful baseball bats, or threaten rape, or express wishes that they would die in grease fires. Transpeople can have their events safe in the knowledge that we won’t drown them out with amplifiers, throw smoke / stink bombs or throw soup.

FortyElephants · 24/04/2025 07:08

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 06:12

'Our female brains'
I dont think you meant to admit that one lol

What?
we have female brains because we have female bodies. You don't have one, because you don't have a female body. Our brains are female like our livers are female, our feet are female and our reproductive systems are female.

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:08

Needspaceforlego · 24/04/2025 07:05

But we all know the issue isn't just toilets, it's Changing rooms,
hospital wards,
prisons,
domestic abuse shelters,
rape crisis centers,
military barracks (wtf),
youth hostels,
girl guide tents,
single sex beauty couses, (see Isla Bryson)
boarding schools,
childrens homes,
Female being searched by trans police
Female police being asked to search trans
Lesbian social spaces and dating sites
Women's hobby groups
Women's festivals,

Female's sports, males have a different skeleton shape, the biggest man will be
bigger and stronger than the biggest woman. It's not fair sports to have male born people there. And nor is it safe.
Even female race horses 🐎 carry lighter weights than males in handicap races.

I just don't see how there can be a 'middle' ground. You are male, wear what you like but it won't make you female. We as a society don't encourage anorexic thinking nor should we continue to encourage 'born in the wrong body' thoughts.
Your body is you. Treat it as a temple.

Lesbians support transgender people more than we support oursevles. It sits at about 86 percent approval. So I mean its quite tiring hearing about that. Okay! im done. I said I was done and im done. Thanks for the reply but Im totally drained lol.
Much love and peace to everyone here and hopefully (as much as this didnt) we can all find common ground in the future!

OP posts:
FortyElephants · 24/04/2025 07:09

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 06:24

No, ive read that stat that was submitted about offending rates and the maths was quite wildly wrong.
Most actual studies usually rate transgender people as that one of the most risk of SA.

As for the second part me personally? No I dont get misgendered or seen as a man in any aspect of my life. I go what matches me and where I am most safe.

You're claiming trans identifying males are at greater risk of sexual assault than women? Really?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:10

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:08

Lesbians support transgender people more than we support oursevles. It sits at about 86 percent approval. So I mean its quite tiring hearing about that. Okay! im done. I said I was done and im done. Thanks for the reply but Im totally drained lol.
Much love and peace to everyone here and hopefully (as much as this didnt) we can all find common ground in the future!

The only way we can find common ground in the future is if you accept that female have the right to exist in a way that isn't centred around you. That we have the right to words for ourselves and spaces for ourselves that don't include you. That we don't define ourselves by reference to gender. Can you do that?

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:10

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:08

You seem to think that being civil means we have to agree with you that you are a woman.

And therein lies the problem.

Well actually I didnt say that at all.
I cant tell you the amount of times someone has put words in my mouth in this conversation.
I dont care what you personally believe about me. Gosh if my boyfriend and I did that we wouldnlt live.
All I asked for was to refrain from calling me certain things in this conversation while speaking to me to keep things decent and if we are being honest. It started and never stopped. So lets not change things here.

OP posts:
BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 24/04/2025 07:11

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:05

Nobody here is calling you names or threatening you. We've all been perfectly civil. And you won't get banned from this forum simply for expressing an opposing point of view.

Depends what you class as calling names. It's that literal violence of correctly identifying sex again. It's the worst thing that can happen. It does show how warped the thinking behind trans identity is though.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:11

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:08

Lesbians support transgender people more than we support oursevles. It sits at about 86 percent approval. So I mean its quite tiring hearing about that. Okay! im done. I said I was done and im done. Thanks for the reply but Im totally drained lol.
Much love and peace to everyone here and hopefully (as much as this didnt) we can all find common ground in the future!

These stats are meaningless if we can't be sure that all the people surveyed were actually female homosexuals.

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:11

FortyElephants · 24/04/2025 07:09

You're claiming trans identifying males are at greater risk of sexual assault than women? Really?

sigh I mean you can look it up if you want to.

OP posts:
EmpressaurusKitty · 24/04/2025 07:12

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:11

These stats are meaningless if we can't be sure that all the people surveyed were actually female homosexuals.

Exactly.

Annoyedone · 24/04/2025 07:12

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:11

sigh I mean you can look it up if you want to.

We did, you’re not. How many transpeople were killed this year in the UK? Now compare that to how many women have been killed? See the difference?

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:12

EmpressaurusKitty · 24/04/2025 07:12

Exactly.

So this was Cis lesbians. So in your words female homosexuals. I mean you can easily look this up? Its been the case for years.

OP posts:
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 24/04/2025 07:13

FairAdvocate · 24/04/2025 07:10

Well actually I didnt say that at all.
I cant tell you the amount of times someone has put words in my mouth in this conversation.
I dont care what you personally believe about me. Gosh if my boyfriend and I did that we wouldnlt live.
All I asked for was to refrain from calling me certain things in this conversation while speaking to me to keep things decent and if we are being honest. It started and never stopped. So lets not change things here.

Calling you what, a man?

A man means an adult human male.

Female only spaces exist specifically to exclude men.

How can we explain that you shouldn't be in those spaces if we are not allowed to identify you as a member of the group those spaces are supposed to exclude?

Annoyedone · 24/04/2025 07:14

Nah, I’m out. Use of the word cis = not good faith. Women have explained why that is offensive. I think this is not a good faith conversation.

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