I cannot read the 17,000 comments on the Fife Nurse topic (17 thread, 40 pages each, 25 comments per page) - can anyone tl;dr sum up what's happening in a few bullets?

[SernieBanders]

Please? :)

If you Google Tribunal Tweets Threadreader, or Tribunal Tweets Substack, you can read what was said at each session of the Tribunal. Each session doesn't take very long to read.

Trans doctor, male to female, 28, married to a woman and not long trans, decides to use woman’s changing room. Middle aged woman nurse feels uncomfortable especially when having a flooding period incident. She asks the doctor to leave, he takes umbrage.

It’s all most unedifying. The doctor is described as a creep, with a shoogly grasp of biology; she’s denounced as a terf and a trump supporter.

and this is nhs funded

Tribunal tweets is your best bet. I think the first post on each thread has a links etc.
Essentially, it boils down to "woman punished for knowing reality".

I haven't been able to follow in full either, but I gather that highlihgts include this A&E doctor declaring that he has biology and he identifies as female, therefore he is a biological female. If a woman patient asked for a female HCP he would feel he was an appropriate person to treat her. He doesn't think biological sex has ever been clearly defined and doesn't matter that much anyway. And yesterday an experienced nurse was also asked if it was important to know a patient's sex and how you could tell, and basically said she wasn't trained to be able to do that because she didn't have a medical degree.

Have I got this right?

Look up boswelltoday on X

He's doe a nice summary of proceedings for each session. Not too long a read.

The tdlr is that the male Dr didn't like the way the nurse looked or didn't look at him and didn't appreciate having his presence in the female changing room challenged. Or that she would wait outside rather than go in while he was there so he complained and then also claimed some patient safety issues where he felt nurse had risked patients rather than work with him. He cannot be specific about these alleged incidents and didn't mention or report at the time although seems to have copious notes of changing room slights.

Management suspended nurse as didn't want to upset the Dr.

Basically big procedural fuck ups and bias against the nurse. But she deserved it all because she stayed in a trump owned hotel. One that nhs staff get discounts in....

Thanks all :)

And as unbiased as possible, the chances of the decision being on the gender critical side? Trans reddit still thinks it's a guaranteed win for them

To be honest, you can take all of that out of this case and they are still going to lose because Sandie Peggie was suspended for something she shouldn't have been suspended for and they did not follow protocol or their own procedures.

Regardless of your GC views or otherwise, at the time she was suspended, all they had was a one sided version of events where someone was complaining of hurty feelings. That does not constitute gross misconduct and therefore there was no justification for her suspension. The spurious events where they suddenly claim that there was potential patient harm cannot be identified, were not reported at the time, again were a one sided claim and were made after they had already suspended her.

Dr Upton is basically a lying cunt whether he is wearing a dress or not.

Dr Upton came across badly. He was uncanny and simpering while still massively patronising and know it all. He was referred to as a 12 yr old boy know it all a few times by observers. He appears to have taken against Sandie and kept notes on her, sought to have her suspended for asking him not to use the women’s when she needed to deal with a perimenopause flooding situation. He then added in apparent patient safety issues but there was no corroboration for any of it. It seems likely he fabricated or exaggerated it to help his case. He declared he is a biological woman, that sex is complicated and reproduction doesn’t involve a male and female, and that he would present himself to a patient who has asked for female medics because he is female. She’d need to specifically refuse him, which would be a sign of the patient being bigoted (and aggressive?) to trans people.

Add in a hospital that didn’t follow procedures, respect a 30 yr experienced nurse enough to ask her what happened and ignoring the advice of their own HR that she shouldn’t be suspended.

It’s a shit show.

But that was all served with a side order of rage and fury that Sandie was put through because of the power play of a nasty, spiteful narcissist.

Interestingly, before he appeared to give evidence people were supportive of Sandie’s position but concerned he may be a vulnerable autistic trans person misled by the hype to believe his own entitlement and victimhood.
On hearing his testimony all that motherly concern melted away as he demonstrated the most appalling DARVO and appropriation that I’ve ever seen.

He literally accused the lawyer of mangling language and making it impossible to give an answer by defining male and female. Which is where the biological woman came in as he is … wait for it…. Not a robot, and he is a woman. Biological woman, therefore.

Honestly it was rage inducing. Sophistry and word games masquerading as truth and facts. Nasty little twerp that he was.

I think it’s hard to call. Definitely wouldn’t bet on the outcome

I’m not even sure I know what the range of outcomes could be

I hadn’t realised he is married to a woman. So is he now one of those penisy lesbians then?

He appears to be cosplaying his own wife at this point.

A woman who he looks very very similar to. Now.

Not another wife identity thief! Bloody hell. Strange how these blokes are full of imagination in one way but not when it comes to choosing their “new look”.
Wonder what she thinks about it all?

It's thought that Fife NHS had wanted to settle the case prior to court.However to have suspended a nurse without an investigation suggests the activism runs deep within the Trust. HR was seemingly overruled by a poorly qualified diversity officer.

He talked about being subject to misogyny- cat calling and prejudice about being a woman doctor- and homophobia for being in a same sex marriage.

It was bizarre and creepy.

Legally speaking, I don’t know. The impression was that they don’t have a leg to stand on, in terms of procedures and evidence. She wasn’t given the opportunity to have a union rep in the ‘casual meeting’ where they suspended her and I think accused her of endangering patients.

But there’s no actual evidence any of it happened. There’s a suggestion of a smoking gun somewhere, as they’ve been deliberately withholding evidence that’s been repeatedly asked for- emails, all sorts. That’s a main contributor to the delay.

If you go into your settings, you can change the way you view threads so they are 100 posts per page... it helps very slightly on long threads! Can't imagine having to change page every 25.

I watched live when I was able .The opposing barrister was extraordinarily skilled . He was led to demonstrate clearly that his using the female changing room was not about his personal safety and privacy but about control and domination and imposing his will on other women . He is uncompromising that he is a woman ( put on earrings and a skirt and grew his hair ) and that anyone who objects to him undressing in the female changing room is a transphobic bigot guilty of harrassment .
Whereas it is actually because he is a man .
He also considered going to the police about this first instance . And he is an absolute bully while claiming to be a victim.
He put his big girl pants on (literally his words in court ) and returned to the CR because he is a woman and entitled to use it . However his courage failed him and he fled to the plaster room in his socks .
Sandie did not even notice him this time .
When the situation did not escatate quickly enough for him at 4 am on Christmas Day he invented patient safety events from the past with nothing definite or concrete triggering the suspension of SP on completely inappropriate grounds . No one even asked her for her side of events
He just wants his beliefs to be respected and to do his job but he is completely unwilling to entertain respecting anyone who does not share his beliefs .
And is arrogant and stupid .

It's been a bit of a shit show for Upton and NHS Fife.

Upton who is biologically and legally a man, claimed to be a biological female, claimed you didn't need a male and a female to make babies and that sex was nothing more than a nebulous dog whistle.

He either made up patient safety incidents to punish Sandie or left it until 8 months to raise them. Either way he looks bad. He can't even pin down the date of one supposed incident to a week never mind a day. Things despite keeping copious notes on his phone of people even daring to look at him funny or refuse to undress in front of him.

NHS Fife suspended Sandie against HR advice and without even hearing her side of the story. The senior nurse also doesn't seem to know what sex it which is kinda worrying.

It should really be a slam dunk for Sandie but the judge seemed to be more sympathetic to Upton and the nhs so who knows.

IANAL, and we still have 10 days of evidence to hear. Plus the possibility now of having an additional respondent and more detriments added.

So it's really hard to say what might happen. But my feeling so far is:

The sexual harassment should be found in Peggie's favour. But employment tribunals have a history of using both the wrong law (only EQA 2010, ignoring Workplace H&S 1992) and the wrong comparator (woman instead of man) in this type of case. So this is the one she's most likely to lose.

Respondent 2 (Upton) harassment - seems clear to me, but it's a lot of little things that the panel.migh view and dismiss individually rather than taking as a whole. And it may depend on whether the application to examine his phone is granted. Should go Peggie's way but not guranteed yet.

New respondent 3 (consultant who sent inflammatory email) - claim not yet added or evidence heard. What we have heard so far doesn't look good for her.

Respondent 1 failure of process claims. Should be a slam dunk.for Peggie. They included all the wrong people, who had no experience, and totally failed to follow process over a ridiculous timeline. Reaction was totally OTT, based on nothing.

Good summary, thanks.