Duty sex

[Superlambaanana]

Interesting article in the Irish Times. You need a subscription but it works to use the archiver at archive.ph.

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/your-wellness/2024/08/04/after-years-of-consenting-to-sex-i-didnt-want-i-want-to-take-a-break-from-it-how-do-i-tell-my-husband/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2OPQDps9jVjvdOiwcIJba87GkBcVah3V49cGfNQVmQXcXKBiDda69YkMMaem0Ttx-PrfCPijpgdwzLhcCw

“consent that is given because of internalised pressure to be nice, to be liked, out of a sense of duty, or a desire to connect in some way, even if we don’t necessarily want that connection to be sexual….

“…the societal and cultural sense of duty that is often placed on women to have sex with men or male partners, noting that men’s sexual desire and pleasure is often prioritised over women’s boundaries in a culture that “grooms women from a young age for a life of sexual and emotional sacrifice”.

My first husband used to put the blue balls thing. He would say he was in agony because his balls were full. My husband now says there may be a very slight ache but as the body reabsorbs it after a while there is no issue. He said if men are bothered they should have a wank!

I love that you have found a way to make it work for you! Bravo! I think it's probably too late for me now. Your point about the novelty wearing off, leaving a sort of imposition really resonates.

@AliasGrace47 I think that's great that you have a relationship where you can joke about maintenance sex and recognise you have different sex drives and make it work to maintain intimacy. To be honest, that sounds like a very good relationship and I'm not sure I've ever had a relationship like that, despite feeling I've had strong relationships with mature partners and happy relationships with open, honest dialogue (ultimately they all failed for me though for various reasons!)

@AliasGrace47 that's a good point about incompatibility. It's certainly true for some of my previous relationships. And ideally yes, no one should ever have to endure anything they don't enjoy. But taken to an extreme that could end up with a world where no one empties the bins because it's just not enjoyable!

@YankSplaining the 'all women' or 'NAMALT' thing is a weird MN phenomenon. Of course not everyone is the same, but often people will say things like "X is universal" when in fact what they actually mean is "this thing is very common" or even more likely "I personally really relate to this point and I don't think I'm alone/ strange or different from the average".

The person who derails with "you idiot, people are all different" probably knows the debate was never about whether something is ubiquitous, but it helps the derailer to dismiss a point they don't like. Like a criminal getting off on a technicality. It is a tactic which is deployed often on MN and often works well for the derailers.

I am not neurodiverse and yet I often feel I'm not 'in the club' on various things. I think that is common (ie it's my experience and I think I'm pretty average!). We are all different but we also do have traits which mean there are tribes and groups and categories of people that some fit into and some don't. We can also perceive tribes where there are none and feel we are on the periphery when there actually is no core group of popular frat girls laughing at us at all. So let's just take 'all women/ universal' type comments with a pinch of salt in future and perhaps we'd have more interesting debates on MN!

I've never been assaulted or sexually harassed. I don't put it down to anything I've done, just luck as anyone can be targeted by male harassers. I've had men absentmindedly crane to look down my top at meetings, say inappropriate things, ask me out and get huffy when I've said no, been in controlling relationship etc etc. But no out and out physical or emotional assault or harassment at the reportable level.

And re the boredom/ actual pain. Yes i agree. I had an ex who continually ignored my pleas for him to use less pressure. Yet I knew it wasn't deliberate. Just laziness and self absorption!

I've had sex countless times without being satisfied and had to just roll over and go to sleep but wishing he had had the decency to make sure I enjoyed it as much as him.

Some people really are using it as “all women,” though. As I said, I’ve had people tell me they don’t believe me about my own life experiences.

Super, sorry I think the first of your replies was to me was to a different poster- confusingly we have similar names!
Re your second post, ofc partners should sometimes do stuff for each other they don't like- my eg for that was TV, but obvs bins are worse! But I differentiate strongly between that and anything involving the physical. Other women ( and men) may feel differently- that's their prerogative.
Definitely some libido mismatch is hard to avoid. I get an icky feeling from men having duty sex w a wife doing the classic 'lie back and think of England'. It's different if she's primarily doing it to please but still enjoying, but it feels weird to me that a man would get turned on by someone just lying there w no physical enjoyment.

I agree that same sex couples still have duty sex, I just suspect it's probs a bit less common. Don't really know though..

Sorry this was meant to be a reply to @AliasGrape.

@AliasGrace47 yes it is quite disturbing that men can get a kick from non-reciprocal sex, but the reality is that they can. Men can also enjoy sex and climax with a partner they don't even fancy.

I take your point about sex being different from bins. I suppose sex has lots more subtle and not-so-subtle connotations. Power, control, emotional dependency, etc. So yes, perhaps duty sex should be treated very differently to duty housework chores.

Interesting!

Ofc this is a tiny sample, but this thread on reddit actuallylesbian was interesting. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Actuallylesbian/comments/10cub7w/how_do_you_deal_with_mismatched_sex_drives/)
The general consensus was masturbation or in the worse case, breakup, few suggested duty.

My first boyfriend told me it was actually dangerous for a man to get an erection and not have an orgasm, something to do with the blood vessels and blood flow or something.

This was before the internet so I couldn't fact check, and anyway being naive and eager to please, I believed him. Meaning he basically got sex any time he wanted. The thing is I do still look back on that relationship with fondness for lots of reasons but that part was clearly manipulative.

I went on believing it until later I met a lovely man younger than me who told me he'd never heard of that and he got spontaneous erections all the time that he didn't do anything about, and it sort of clicked in my head what that first boyfriend had done.

Duty sex is more akin to health care. More like going to the dentist, or having a smear, than doing the bins.

I clocked this was for me 🙂

Im not saying it never causes an issue - certainly in the early days it did for me, in terms of not feeling attractive or also struggling with the stereotype that men are up for it any time they can get it. Precisely the trope that we’re discussing here - that men are the ones constantly pestering and women have to ‘give in’ sometimes for the good of the relationship. It made me feel like a very unnatural woman that it was the other way around in our case - I mean it wasn’t really, DH was certainly pretty keen in the very early days and I never pestered/ coerced but it was certainly a different dynamic than I was used to.

TTC, having a DC, health fluctuations etc have all played their part. A big part of DH’s lack of interest was a health issue he’s now mostly resolved. We’re more even now and that helps - but our normal is lower than the average probably - certainly if you look at the relationship board where everyone is apparently jumping their other half at least twice a day otherwise they just wouldn’t be interested in a relationship.

Thanks everyone for your interesting replies. So many different dynamics have been described that paint a very varied picture, even if the basic concept- consented to but not enthusiastically consented to sex- is obviously quite common. Clearly it can be problematic for some women, but actually positive for others. Fascinating!

I had increasing consensual but unwanted sex at the end of my marriage.
The pressure came from the tropes he used and the wheedling, whining and anger to get me to comply. The choice you are faced with in the moment is comply and it will be over soon or have him start stomping and shouting around the house even waking up the children.

Obviously, there could be no discussion afterwards because you’re “Just Spooling It”

The trouble is, once this starts to happen all desire just dies. It becomes a contractual bone of contention and feels like a duty.

@MoveToParis yes I've had a similar experience. I think this is at the thin end of 'unwanted but consensual' because it really is consent under duress. Even worse, that particular ex really didn't notice the difference between enthusiastic consent and bare minimum consent.

And yes that relationship also suffered from an inability to ever properly resolve anything or learn/ adapt/ improve because he always wanted to 'move on' - "I don't want to talk about it anymore" and "stop nagging me" are powerfully toxic statements used to shut women down and avoid any responsibility. I should have identified it as a red flag far sooner but he was nice otherwise so I let it run on for years longer than it ought to have. I'm reaping the misandrist legacy now!

I think we need to dig deeper into why women don't want to have sex.

A low libido is abnormal.

Is it hormonal contraceptives?

Not being sexually attracted to our partners?

Denial of homosexuality?

Unsatisfactory sex?

Boredom
Routine
Resentment
Once you’re a wife it’s expected which seems to take all the mystery and excitement out of it
Tiredness
Depression
Partner selfish in bed.

I think we need to dig deeper into why women don't want to have sex.

Personally, I do. But not always at the same time he does, and not with the frequency he'd prefer. But when he initiates I'm fine with going along with it and I enjoy it. I have a reactive libido nowadays rather than a proactive one. I hardly ever get horny on my own these days like I used to but sex when he initiates is still lovely.

There's also different types of duty sex of course. At the risk of getting graphic , what do people think about giving your man a hand job when he's horny and you're not up for it? I do this a lot and I'm fine with it!

I don’t think a low libido is particularly abnormal - or at least one that fluctuates. It’s more unusual I would have thought to be constantly up for it all the time, once you get past a certain age anyway.

As PP has said, the idea of ‘duty’ or ‘maintenance‘ sex isn’t about never wanting sex, it’s just that you don’t always want it at that particular moment just because your partner does.

But if you’re saying why is it seemingly common for women to want sex less frequently on average than their male partners, the reasons you listed would all certainly do it. Other reasons could be -

Normal hormonal fluctuations/ menstrual cycle/ menopause etc. Personally I couldn’t be less interested during my period, I know some women still enjoy sex during that time though

Pregnancy, childbirth - birth injuries or trauma, loss of sense of self/ confidence after childbirth, breastfeeding, feeling touched out from child(ren) all day or that they can’t take another person wanting something/ making demands of them, being scared of getting pregnant.

Being exhausted from taking on the majority of domestic labour and/ or childcare - feeling resentment or losing attraction to partner as a result.

Stress either at work or elsewhere, anxiety, depression - medication for any of the above affecting sex drive.

Am sure there’s loads more possible reasons too.

Perhaps you could read the thread and make a note. I didn’t have a low, problematic or in need of medication libido. I had a partner who was routinely horrible to me, demonstrated his absolute contempt on a daily basis, and yet couldn’t grasp at all that I wouldn’t voluntarily go near him.

As is so often the case - the state of the sex life is representative of the state of the marriage.

Is it not fairly well accepted that women generally have lower libidos than men? I thought this was down to biology - we're all wired to want to reproduce but men are can impregnate women on any day of the month, while women have only got a shot at it once a month.