Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: chat

I'm asking Keir a question about women's rights on 5 live - how to phrase it?

818 replies

JanefromLondon1 · 28/06/2024 09:12

I want him not to be able to give me the flannel that we have to be kind to the woMen. I want assurances that we do t have to share our spaces. I want to not sound like the very nervous person that am I!

Any help appreciated?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
Runningupthecurtains · 28/06/2024 22:05

ElleWoods15 · 28/06/2024 22:01

ElleWoods15 I presume you weren't an adult before the #MeToo movement happened.

I’m going to take that as a compliment like being IDed to buy a bottle of rosé! Sadly the latter hasn’t happened to me for about 20 years, and I’ve spent those 20 years fighting for gender equality (and just an end to good old office sexual harassment) in a heavily male dominated industry.

But that’s totally irrelevant to this debate, because I consider trans women to be women. And what you’re worried about isn’t actually trans women, it’s male predators pretending to be trans women. Which is different.

Why do you consider transwomen to be women? Do you think they have a woman's soul/spirit trapped in a man's body and so have always been women or that there is a process that can turn a man into a woman? If so is this surgery, hormones or 'living as a woman' what ever that means.
If being a woman isn't a matter of biology what is it?
If you think some men are literally women do you think there is no limit to where they should be accepted as women? Are you actually advocating for some people with male bodies to be allowed in a boxing ring with people with female bodies?

Madcats · 28/06/2024 22:05

So a few newspapers are reporting it.
Maybe I am hopeless at searching, but there seems to be an eerie silence on the BBC web #censorship

dunBle · 28/06/2024 22:06

TheMarzipanDildo · 28/06/2024 20:32

‘Twas back in t’ day

and there was feck all competition, in my defence. And I thought he’d be like Kier Hardie because of the name.

Weren't the alternatives Nandy, Rayner and Long-Bailey, or am I remembering that wrong? I'm certain he was the only one that didn't sign that pledge condemning various women's groups as transphobic though.

Fetlocksblowininthewind · 28/06/2024 22:07

@JanefromLondon1 Thank you!

I hope you are ok with all of the attention you're getting, I know I'd be all up and down over it.

I think you're so brave and brilliant! I hope you can see how many women appreciate you holding KS to account so well. The sigh, the absolute twaddle, it was perfect!

You are a hero for getting Women's rights so much attention today!

TheMarzipanDildo · 28/06/2024 22:07

dunBle · 28/06/2024 22:06

Weren't the alternatives Nandy, Rayner and Long-Bailey, or am I remembering that wrong? I'm certain he was the only one that didn't sign that pledge condemning various women's groups as transphobic though.

Yes I think that was the deciding factor in the end. Not that it’s made much difference of course.

Mycatsmudge · 28/06/2024 22:08

ElleWoods15 · 28/06/2024 22:01

ElleWoods15 I presume you weren't an adult before the #MeToo movement happened.

I’m going to take that as a compliment like being IDed to buy a bottle of rosé! Sadly the latter hasn’t happened to me for about 20 years, and I’ve spent those 20 years fighting for gender equality (and just an end to good old office sexual harassment) in a heavily male dominated industry.

But that’s totally irrelevant to this debate, because I consider trans women to be women. And what you’re worried about isn’t actually trans women, it’s male predators pretending to be trans women. Which is different.

So what’s to stop male predators claiming a GRC which will allow them into a women only space? By not having men under any guise into our spaces we don’t face that threat. Any decent trans woman should understand this. They may want to live a woman’s lifestyles which we should all respect but they aren’t and will never be biological women

AInightingale · 28/06/2024 22:09

Twaddle-DPP was very clever during the leadership contest, he allowed Nandy and L-B to make fools of themselves while he said nothing at all about the issue. I thought it was telling at the time.

UpThePankhurst · 28/06/2024 22:11

Some TW are predators, who have harmed, assaulted and raped women while in a women's space, and have been convicted and imprisoned for such. They are TW as much as any other TW, living long term in their identity. You cannot declare that a TW is a man pretending once they have assaulted a biological woman.

Committing multiple sex offenses on women is not a barrier to getting a GRC.

ElleWoods15 · 28/06/2024 22:12

@AInightingale and with that I’m leaving for my own MH! I’m not asking anyone to be kind, I’m just asking people to be respectful. And that’s so far from being respectful I cannot read this anymore!

ElBandito · 28/06/2024 22:12

Jane, you were amazing. This has all blown up a lot, I hope you are ok.

ladygindiva · 28/06/2024 22:16

PronounssheRa · 28/06/2024 10:20

however, even i know that bio women deserve the right to bio-women only spaces, in healthcare, therapy/safe spaces and sport.

That aligns exactly with GC views, so what is it about GC views you dislike intensely?

Came to say exactly this 🤣

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 28/06/2024 22:16

Cantquitebelievewhatitscometo · 28/06/2024 22:02

I said as much as this on the other thread. Why, when there must be polling showing this is problematic, are they so focused on this item? A canny politician who genuinely believed this nonsense is good and right, would have not made any comment on easing the GRC process and relied on pushing through, when I’m elected with a HUGE majority. Labour have putj this as one of their key commitments so they must be planning to put it through under the Salisbury convention, ie if it’s part of an election pledge, it’s not challenged when they make the legislation. That’s actually sinister, that they are so set on this that they want to circumvent debate in the Lords with Baroness Nicholson and others dissecting the bullshit.

Why on earth are they so committed to this? Who is holding their feet to the fire?

Or: what are they hearing in focus groups, from which demographics, and in which seats? And - if different to the polls - by how much and what impact might any difference potentially have?

Alternatively, who's bankrolling their illogical position, what do they stand to gain, and what level of influence will they have after 4 July?

ladygindiva · 28/06/2024 22:21

Foxxo · 28/06/2024 10:27

because the people i know in RL who claim 'GC' beliefs are actually transphobes, and don't believe my friends have any right to even exist. <shrug>

If you have GC views and don't think that, great!

I know hundreds of GC women, and not a single one believes trans people don't have a right to exist. Every single one, and myself, basically think along the same lines as the views you've articulated in this thread. You are GC. Welcome.

YellowDayToday · 28/06/2024 22:22

@JanefromLondon1 Just wanted to add tonight I’ve written to my Labour candidate expressing my dismay at KA response to you.

ChishiyaBat · 28/06/2024 22:22

ElleWoods15 · 28/06/2024 22:12

@AInightingale and with that I’m leaving for my own MH! I’m not asking anyone to be kind, I’m just asking people to be respectful. And that’s so far from being respectful I cannot read this anymore!

Respect is earned though, there are very few people who have won mine, so who are you to ask that we are respectful to men when they have little to none for most women? Where is the respect for womens boundaries and rights?

thenightsky · 28/06/2024 22:27

Alternatively, who's bankrolling their illogical position, what do they stand to gain, and what level of influence will they have after 4 July?

Food for thought indeed.

CormorantStrikesBack · 28/06/2024 22:27

ElleWoods15 · 28/06/2024 22:01

ElleWoods15 I presume you weren't an adult before the #MeToo movement happened.

I’m going to take that as a compliment like being IDed to buy a bottle of rosé! Sadly the latter hasn’t happened to me for about 20 years, and I’ve spent those 20 years fighting for gender equality (and just an end to good old office sexual harassment) in a heavily male dominated industry.

But that’s totally irrelevant to this debate, because I consider trans women to be women. And what you’re worried about isn’t actually trans women, it’s male predators pretending to be trans women. Which is different.

Is the rapist Isla Bryson a man or a trans woman in your view? Because he says he’s trans and got sent to a woman’s prison. There was another similar case with someone who’s name escapes me and i believe that man raped a female prisoner.

remember Stonewall say acceptance without exception. So any man who says they’re a woman is immediately a woman according to them. And they would say you’re very transphobic for saying someone may be pretending to be trans.

ilovemyspace · 28/06/2024 22:28

@littlbrowndog Nope from me. Men should be the ones who should be educated or re-educated as women are often told

i totally agree! - but at the minute women's voices are being ignored (again!) (and who would have thought it after we've already won the vote 🙄)
but here we are - again!

Women have already campaigned for women's rights.

It seems we now have to campaign that non women have their own rights,...... because they can't be bothered to campaign for their own rights - or is it because they want women's rights for some reason??

Whatever it is, it seems that men have the final say in what women get.

And it will stay that way until women stand up AGAIN for their rights.

Keir Starmer doesn't seem to recognise that women AS ACTUAL WOMAN have rights

It's a dangerous game to vote Labour in this GE

FlirtsWithRhinos · 28/06/2024 22:30

ElleWoods15 · 28/06/2024 22:12

@AInightingale and with that I’m leaving for my own MH! I’m not asking anyone to be kind, I’m just asking people to be respectful. And that’s so far from being respectful I cannot read this anymore!

Oh love. That discomfort you feel? That feeling that they must be wrong, that they shouldn't say these things? That's cognitive dissonance. That's a part of you realising that stuff that seemed very simple and straightforward when someone told you about it doesn't actually stand up when you look at it closely.

And that's ok. No one is asking you to hate trans women or reject your friends or anything.

But you can't take someone born male, who grew as a human with all the strengths (and weaknesses) of a male body, and all the privileges (and challanges) that society gives to those born male, and none of the challanges (and privileges) society gives to those born female, and say "oh but something in this male person's mind makes them more like a woman than a man, makes them not only not a risk to fenale people but actually interchangeable with female people for all intents and purposes other than sports and childbirth, that despite having none of the formative experiences of women their life journey is still that of a women and not that of the man's life they in reality did live, and not only that these male-bodied people are actually women, but furthermore than no other male-bodied people will ever lie that they are the same as well". You just can't.

Female people still exist and have needs, challenges and risks that male people, even the nicest, sweetest trans women, do not.

And we have a right to our own name, our own voice, our own spaces, our own expereinces, our own history and our own identity.

Because when a person stands in front of you and says she is a woman, she's not a woman because the name woman decribes who she woke up as today, it's because she has lived the life of a female person, growing from a baby to a girl to a woman, living that life from birth to where she is today, to get there.

PepeParapluie · 28/06/2024 22:32

👏👏👏 very well said @FlirtsWithRhinos

lcakethereforeIam · 28/06/2024 22:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SidewaysOtter · 28/06/2024 22:41

Devonbabs · 28/06/2024 20:13

You have to wonder what is going through this woman’s mind. She’s a traitor to women everywhere.

I doubt any thought that crosses Rayner’s mind has a long journey.

AInightingale · 28/06/2024 22:44

I know you said you are leaving the thread @ElleWoods15 , what I said might have been harsh, but I do maintain that the men who are prepared to enter spaces where women are at their most vulnerable are the very men we least want in there. Because if they really were women, they would understand that. Even men understand that and are largely respectful.

Hyperions · 28/06/2024 22:46

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 28/06/2024 22:16

Or: what are they hearing in focus groups, from which demographics, and in which seats? And - if different to the polls - by how much and what impact might any difference potentially have?

Alternatively, who's bankrolling their illogical position, what do they stand to gain, and what level of influence will they have after 4 July?

Here's some interesting info on donations from a trans activist to labour MPs this is from X last year

I'm asking Keir a question about women's rights on 5 live - how to phrase it?
I'm asking Keir a question about women's rights on 5 live - how to phrase it?
I'm asking Keir a question about women's rights on 5 live - how to phrase it?
itsalwaysthesame · 28/06/2024 22:47

Just listened and we need more Jane's.

I am such to death of it all. Women and men and then another group who need therapy not a sex change.

All this of trans, self ID, cis woman, gender fluid, pro nouns etc is just ridiculous, you can not change sex, you are born with a penis or vagina, if your born with both or half of each then, sadly it's a deformity, sad but it's true.

Such people need therapy not a sex change.

Swipe left for the next trending thread