Anyone think we (women) get away with too much?

[ThatPinkHelper]

A few of us were having a chat over the weekend about our teenage years and the usual subjects came up, drinking on parks, staying out late, going places other than where we told our parents, older boys etc…

It was when the subject moved to older boys and the usual commentary around that, that one of us mentioned that she used to get taken out clubbing by 18 year old girls when she was 14.

The group was fairly split on whether it was that big of a deal. I was firmly in the camp of - “looking back on it that was very sketchy and I’d absolutely flip my lid if it was my daughter”.

But given the hugely contrasting reactions to boys sexually exploiting younger girls and older girls putting younger girls in very dangerous situations and environments, I began wondering if we sometimes get away with too much? Not as individuals but collectively as women.

I know it’s only theoretical but as I mentioned above, if my daughter was 14 and was being lead astray like that I’d go ballistic but I’m beginning to wonder if everyone around me would try to play it off as normal.

I don’t understand why you’re all so desperate to turn this discussion on to men?

Because if you talk about one half of the population (i.e. women) unfairly getting away with things, presumably you must mean 'compared with the other half of the population' (i.e. men). Otherwise you would presumably have phrased your OP 'Do people get away with too much?'.

What I don't understand is why you are unable to make your point clearly in any of your posts. People keep asking you to explain what you mean, but you haven't really.

I also don’t understand the point of what the OP is trying to say. Can you be more succinct?

Do you think women are grooming young people and getting away with it?

All I can think of to say in response really is that there are people of both sexes who behave badly, exploit others' vulnerability etc, but that you only need to look at the crime statistics to know that it overwhelmingly isn't often women who do this (on a criminal level at least).

All these makes zero sense to me!
Not much of what you have said so far makes any sense.
You seem to pass from a singular example of a group of young females taken out a 14 year old with them (which you do not even make clear if that meant drinking too early, or going out and making out with older teens/ young men) to a generalisation to women, to a mention of emotional abuse, somebody piped in with some bizarre view on sexual exploitation of males and then you mention teachers.
Is this a puzzle?

Think op has had a few mid afternoon cocktails!

I personally didn't have any experience of older girls taking me out drinking and meeting boys. I did that stuff aged 14 with my peers, and when I did meet older girls in nightclub toilets or wherever, they would usually be kind to me and look out for me.

There will be examples of female teachers exploiting and grooming students, but far more male teachers doing it. And women who do this kind of thing don't 'get away with it' - they are usually judged extremely harshly.

I have sons too and think a lot about the ways in which patriarchy damages men. But I don't feel like they need particular protection against predatory women. They aren't getting leered at or yelled out of car windows like I was (by men) at their age. There is loads I want to protect them from, but I don't think dangerous women are going under the radar by virtue of their sex.

Not got a clue what you’re saying?
In the world we live in it is the men that get away with everything, women’s rights has taken all of time to finally make some difference to our lives. It is an absolute disgrace that most decisions and people in power are still megalomaniac men.
i can name plenty of evil male dictators though.
Educate yourself to where we were to where we are now still a million years to go probably before we can get away with everything

So what are we getting away with collectively? Child sexual abuse? I'm not really following your argument or examples either I'm afraid.

Are you insane, do you read the news? No! 😂😂😂

Obviously the implicit comparison is with men. Presumably what we’re comparing is sexual predation/exploitation (although agreed this is weirdly hinted at but not stated). In which case I’d say on the whole, no. When the power imbalance or abusiveness is clearcut enough and has enough evidence that no one can pretend it didn’t happen then cases involving women get a lot more news attention, sympathetic netflix series, endless discussion on social media etc.

In all other cases abuse and exploitation by men and women is covered up or excused, it’s true this happens in slightly different ways. But there’s obviously a lot more male exploitation, abuse and violence aimed at women than goes in the other direction. The two men I know who’ve experienced something like that there was involvement of a man as well even though a woman was the main person responsible. The many many women I know who’ve experienced similar it was entirely committed by male strangers or partners, not enabled by women. And I can think of many examples of women stepping in to protect other women, whether a friend in an abusive relationship, or a bad looking situation in public. So women are not en masse ‘getting away with’ anything, in fact that would predominantly be the men, for millenia now.

Do you think we live in a society which doesn't police women?

I dont understand this. Men exploit, harass, abuse young women a lot more than women do.

Sorry OP I don't really understand your point. 90% of women have been harassed by men. Barely any women have been harassed by women, or women to men.

The patriarchy would have us believe women are awful to men too - crazy, manipulative, etc etc - but we've moved on since then. Well, I hope we have

Women get a raw deal

You are looking at what was happening 30 years ago with today’s lenses. Of course a lot of it will look wrong. Whether it’s about men or women’s behaviour.
lId be very careful though to assume that because this is what was happening 30 years ago, then it’s happening now but we are just closing our eyes to it and ‘women get away with it’.

Fwiw in the example you give - older girls taking you clubbing.
1- a 14yo going out with a 18yo would have been considered ok. These girls wouldn’t have seen the issue THEN
2- danger wasn’t assessed the same way. Esp by teens!!

I think it says very little about what women can get away with tbh.
Just that what we see as acceptable changes.

I'm in your club too 😀

To be fair a point that DH made was that he feels men don’t recognise sexual assault or imbalances of power perpetrated against them as readily as we do.

Yes that’s probably true.
In part because SA on men are much lower key and because they simply dint happen as often.
But also because men are seen as strong and surely they can’t be attacked and assaulted by a feeble woman right?

However, the power imbalance is not skewed against them. They might in a position where they dint have the power if imbalance in their favour, but that’s not having it against them.

OP I have a PhD and I don’t have a clue what you are getting at. Most other people who have posted have said they don’t understand either. Instead of responding to carry on your argument can you please answer the many people asking you to explain your basic starting point?

But did an 18 year old girl entice you into the club? Or was it a female teacher?

No, I bloody don't think women get away with too much. We get away with nothing, in fact. What a confused post.

Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't a sex we cannot mention as this is not about the men. Oops.

I have read the whole thread and I still have no idea of what women are getting away with. Until I know that I cant possibly say if it's too much or not enough.

You're making no sense.

And I've never 'got away' with anything. Just worked hard for anything I've got or achieved, even if it's not much really.

ExH on the other hand got away with paying no maintenance, not having to curtail his career due to childcare, following running off with my (rich) mate, emptying the bank accounts and leaving me and his kids without a lot to piss in.

So no.

You're not making any sense op.

South Park absolutely nailed the dynamic with female teachers abusing male pupils. All the women were shocked/angry. The men were shocked at first, till they found out it was a female teacher and male child and were then "niiiiice", "she's super hot" etc etc.
Of course its satire but its true that men are less likely to see an adult woman with a teenager boy as abusive/wrong than women are. Especially if she is attractive. But they are wrong. It is abusive. And part of the reason there are so many news stories about this happening if you search for them is because those women are being prosecuted. The fact that random men think its hot doesn't change that hopefully. And if they are influencing the prosecution rates then we need to evidence that and take the argument to the men that think that somehow.

The nightclub thing doesn't sound right to me now. But when I was about 15 there were also 18 year old boys in our group helping us get into nightclubs/going out with us. I look back and think ick, but it was more normal so I guess it was also more normalised for girls to be getting younger girls into nightclubs too. Where it gets really unpleasant (older girls drawing younger teenagers into CSE situations with much older men) there historically wasn't much enthusiasm to prosecute the men themselves or now, .

Munchausen's by proxy - that's definitely more of a woman thing and certain women (they shall be nameless for risk of post deletion) are absolutely "getting away" with having consigned their children to permanent infertility. So some women are getting away with too much. I can agree with you there! I hope one day this ceases to be the case.

I take your point, it is a good one.

Do these children not have fathers?