Please help me respond to this idiot

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I have been seeing someone (a man).

We got into a text conversation about the "not all men" rhetoric. I was explaining the statistics surrounding rape, domestic violence, trafficking etc. etc. And that no, it isn't all men, but it is all women who are at risk.

Talked about the gender pay gap etc.

He said he accepts what I'm saying but think the way I say it, means that men will reject the argument. That I'm seen as too radical.

I said, how do you think the suffragettes got the vote? By asking nicely?

He also said that I've stated the facts in a way that is posed to sway opinion.

He said that I have been patronising and made him feel like a dickhead. And not showed him any compassion, when he was just trying to help (?).

I said I can't believe I had expressed that women live in constant fear of being raped, killed etc. and somehow the conversation has ended up being about a man.

You think he's an idiot he thinks you're patronising and/or attacking him. You don't need help responding you are not compatible.

Sounds like a miscommunication. It's a heavy conversation to have by text, and he doesn't believe all women live in constant fear, because we really don't. However if you do than you were feeling as though you weren't being listened to. Without the transcript we don't know whether you were being patronising or whether he was being defensive.

it includes acknowledging that as average, hard working, selfless men they are not that attractive.

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I see some truth in this, in the sense that young men will often see young women ha their heads turned by the "bad boy" types. I'll be honest, in my late teens/early twenties I fell foul of this. Then the penny dropped that I had to take some responsibility for the way shit relationships and encounters were making me feel

@Gingernaut great video thanks for sharing

I disagree

Any man who needs it proving that many women are at risk from some men is an idiot

I'm actually not bothered if I lose the argument to them or anyone else by saying that, because their view of me isn't one I care for anyway.

I don't get what you mean about telling them hardworking, average selfless young men not being attractive?

"I can see we're never going to agree here, so that means we're not compatible from my side. Oh well. I think it's best we go our separate ways."

Although, better to say it in person than by text.

We can't see the conversation to judge, but the way you have described it does make him seem the more reasonable one to me. He hasn't (presumably) called you an idiot, and the debate on radicalism vs incrementalism being the best way to change society is a valid one. Plenty of examples on either side.

The Suffragettes carried out a programme of attacks on property, including arson and bombing, calling themselves terrorists, and it worked. But other routes to social change are available, and many times that type of extremism has backfired (I'd argue that Extinction Rebellion's action have probably been counterproductive, for example). The battle for gay rights is a mix of both, but ultimately it was an accommodative argument that worked to get the public onside (at least according to Andrew Sullivan who is good on this subject).

He sounds like a total arsehole. Ditch him. By text, if you don't want to ghost him, but definitely not in person he's far too much of an entitled overbearing minimising mansplaining wank to put yourself through a face to face.

Thank you for your kind words.
And you write very well on it.
I think (I am not no way qualified to say) most men are not worth speaking nor listening to on this issue.
When I have shared experiences and analogies, the one group that can be reached are sensitive young men, who are not interesting to many if any women and might be heading to a red pill to seek worth.

Unfortunately, the majority of men who identify as male feminists are hideous. They are narcissistic predatory men who preyed on emotionally vulnerable women, abused them and then declare themselves special for repenting. The message of "Like you, I had women waiting on me and obeying me, doing my housework and caring for my needs, now I have learnt to appreciate them and stop abusing them, Aren't I so much better than other men!" will go down well on feminist boards but will not tal any men round.

Seriously - your cunning, patented method for encouraging boys and young men not to be arseholes is to tell them that arseholes are more attractive? 🦶🔫 There is a flaw in your plan.

Sorry, I am not sure how you took it that way. I will clarify and sorry for being unclear.
My point was that being in a close relationship with a man as a woman is scarier than vice versa and the bumhole men will be a major deterrent.

Well you have written that you tell them "average, hard working, selfless men they are not that attractive".
This implies that something else is more attractive, presumably 'bad boys'.
They need the message that nice men are attractive, not that woman actually think they are losers and prefer a bit of rough.

Ah! Sorry, yes, I beg your pardon.
What I mean is being with a man is a risk and it is not worth it for them. They are OK, but the equivalent of a free Nando's when there is a risk of food poisoning.
So they can either be a top class restaurant "Finance, trust fund, 6'5", blue eyes" or make a meaningful emotional connection. And the latter taes more than "just be yourself".

I still don't understand what you mean.

This.

You expressed yourself very well.

Don’t waste your time thinking you can change him.

i think affects all women, even Kate Middleton went to the Sarah Everade vigil because she said she knew what it was like when she was single.

Oh I made some terrible decisions when I was younger. It wasn't so much that i liked bad boys, but I didn't know myself very well, I was learning about the world and other people and full of a very teenage desire for authenticy and realness. It is never possible to see inside peoples heads, and the younger you are the less you are able to read people's character through small signs. That "rough round the edges" boy might be horrible or even dangerous. But the "nice guy" or "male feminist" might turn out to be as well. You would see boys getting frustrated that girls couldn't see they were being genuine - or that girls wouldn't believe they were genuine when they were putting on an act.
Its confusing and even horrible at times. For teenage boys and girls. Luckily it usually gets easier. So the actual "hardworking, kind" men become easier to spot.

Do you mean like "This is how to give the impression that you are being authentic"?

@RedHelenB @anothernamitynamenamechange
Sorry, I am clearly putting myself badly. I was trying to shorten my messages and it just ends up in me ending up typing more.
Red, Lots of lads will hear that would would be grateful for a lad who is hard working, pulls his weight and puts her first. Of course, this is not true really and it can be disillusioning. What they offer (OKish looks, has a job, will pull their weight and put them first) is nice like a free meal and Nandos. But you canno expect people to get that excited by it where there are such risks.
If you are a "nice guy" in the positive sense, so are many many others and also a few real arseholes. It is like @anothernamitynamenamechange but a way of explaining it to young men. It works better when I am not skipping over it then having to go back and clarify! Really :D

@anothernamitynamenamechange Does that question refer to better advice that "just be yourself"? Yes, it does. The basic sounding technique is how to listen properly. Learn that people are largely talking about themselves adn will main hear words as about themselves too. People either listen to the words of they listen to the feeling and motivation, so if one listen, and rather than reacting to words, work how they feel and why they are telling you.

The other one is toxic masculinity. Many young men are open to it, but particularly if you open to toxic femininity.

OK yeah, fair enough that makes sense.

Quote; "He said he accepts what I'm saying but think the way I say it, means that men will reject the argument. That I'm seen as too radical."

Hi. New here.

The above sounds like stereotypical male tone policing of women. Either what you are saying is truthful or it isn't. The alleged tone you use when making your arguments should not affect anyone's ability to accept them as valid. If it does, they're too fragile to live on this planet. They must live in a constant state of consternation over how reality is unkind to their tender sensibilities. I find such people exhausting.

I suspect that when he refers to other men, he really means himself. He thinks it's "too radical." That's probably because it is a truth which he actually does not wish to accept, despite what he assured you of. He's being disingenuous and giving you lip service.

I don't know this guy, so I could have interpreted his motives incorrectly, but hopefully you can do better than this dim dude.

100%. Nope, I'm not persuading them of what is self evident. If they can't see it themselves, they're stupid and/or in denial.

Either you think they are valid points or you don't. The bluntness with which they are expressed does not negate their validity, so what is the problem? I don't understand this attitude. It's similar to the equally faulty reasoning that when a point is made by somebody you dislike, that somehow negates the validity of the point.

Also, you seem to be saying that being around feminists whose "tone" you dislike makes you not want to be a feminist? Again, if you really think there is validity in a belief system, what other people who share it do or don't do shouldn't shake that belief.

@XChrome It could be. And I have not been in these conversation with men as a woman so I have no idea how dumb and annoying they can be.
Where it seemed to possibly be onto something is on things like "toxic masculinity". To many men, it sounds like they are being called toxic (nad that is what some mean). Starting with the pressure on women to be the perfect victim (like a fair maiden to be saved from the dragon) with a lack of either blame nor agency can ring true. Then turning that around to men having the pressure to be the perfectly brave and capable heroic night to the rescue (equally unrealistic) can lead to it well.

Or, he might just be a prat and as I have no experience in these conversations I am happy to be corrected!