They hate us don’t they?

[Dargawn]

I notice all over social media that when it comes to taking the piss or highlighting a particular annoying type of character then ppl will default to the feminine. So, it might be a meme taking the piss out of the office gossip. It’s a woman; or doing an impression of that annoying jobsworth in the corner, it’s ‘Brenda’. Or focusing on a ‘gullible lefty’, then it’s a ‘women’s studies’ lecturer; or someone who is fake - always a woman, or a gold digger - always a woman.

like all the contempt in the world is directed at women.

Gay men do it, straight men do it, old men do it, young men do it.

they hate us don’t they?

I disagree, I believe we can treat men as a group as that is how they behave!
they also hunt in packs.
it is completely disingenuous to tell us men treat you the same now as they did when you were ‘younger’ - when was younger? when you were 50ish menopausal, 40ish with teenage children, thirties with babies, inlaws, a career, 20 in full bloom - you believe men treat you the same? You may well have known your own worth, but you wouldn’t necessarily know what the men you encountered were/are thinking
Outlawing Wolf whistling and cat calling put paid to the youthful attractiveness meter
of the building site, passing cyclists, louch youths in a group, whilst older ladies were easily able to walk past unhindered. This is not being treated the same at any age.

bearing in mind that we have THE SCRIPT it is easier, much easier to describe ‘men’ as a generic group than it is to describe ‘women’ in the same way, women being far more complex, emotional, mysterious, unfathomable and largely, unpredictable.

Fwiw op I totally agree with you. And I think rather than ‘hysterical’, I feel you’ve probably understated the hate. It’s probably only the tip of the iceberg if you could really get into the vast majority of men’s heads.

BUT I don’t feel as despairing as you for two reasons…

1. I’m close to lots of lovely ordinary men who genuinely care about the girls and women in their lives. They are ‘gentlemen’ who respect women, respect the differences but don’t get stuck on stereotypes, and are cheerleaders for them. There are enough of them to make me think that there is a critical mass of ‘nice’ men. And fortunately they’re raising daughters and sons with that same model.
2. My dds and their friends are the most pro-women pro-feminist young women I’ve even seen. They support women, they call out ‘punching down’ on other women. They try and include outliers and keep them safe from vulnerability around males. They are the first generation I’ve ever personally witnessed that value and respect other girls over flirting or winning approval from males.

The reason inadequate men are doubling down is because things are changing and they’re using aggression and hate to keep their power. Let’s just take it as a sign to keep on subverting it.

Another thrust of Dr Greer’s is that ‘ nothing will change until we fix how we bring up our sons’ -

@Churchview you have described 3 men, two family, one professional with
whom you had a close association, all in your blooming youth.

Perhaps you have been cocooned, sheltered and protected by kind solicitous gentlemen, perhaps you have indeed been respected for many years by the
men of your family and acquaintance.

Absolutely. I also remember that some of Obama's team had a hilarious tag line about Hillary "Quit campaigning and make me a sandwich".
The riposte from her team was 'can you imagine if we had said about Obama "Quit campaigning and clean my pool"?'
I can't see there being a woman president any time soon.

you tell him @Superlambaanana !! here proving our point really, the muscling in, divisive behaviour, like a hawk diving among doves : we neither want nor need this self centred input, so attention seeking, so pffft. (when we are so busy arguing among ourselves)

btw the ‘lingerie department’ experience is possibly worth a thread ha ha

And what about you- I take it the men in your life have all been pigs.

My favourite is when they start with the announcement "man here" (cue us all sitting up straight and paying attention!)

take what you want, I wasn’t addressing you

No but I was asking you a question 😊

it certainly is, what an odd and forceful remark - this is Mumsnet,
not yet Gransnet where they have a resident male beginning every grans
morning for them,
like the bellwether, leading the flock,
surely this would not be welcome here amongst so many free thinkers

This and this "“they may hate black people but they hate women even more”.

I'm not sure where you're living but there is a massive amount of poking fun at men in the media and online. In pretty much every series / film / boonin the past 20 years there is a strong female protagonist who somethos saves the day but the (normally white) guy is a villain or at bst a bumbling idiot. See Homer Simpson onwards. Some obvious examples being.

Men Behaving Badly
Portrays men as immature, lazy, and obsessed with beer, women, and dodging responsibility.
Became an emblem of the "lad culture" of the 1990s.
The Royle Family
Jim Royle, the father, is a couch potato who constantly insults his family and avoids any real work or responsibility.
My Family
Ben Harper, the father, is emotionally unavailable and often shown as bumbling or out-of-touch.
Outnumbered
The dad, Pete, is well-meaning but portrayed as ineffective and overwhelmed by the kids and his sharper wife.
Gavin & Stacey
Characters like Smithy (James Corden) are often shown as childish, emotionally stunted, and commitment-phobic.
Mrs. Brown’s Boys
Male characters are frequently mocked, and the show’s humour plays off exaggerated gender stereotypes.

What strange circles you keep. This is not my experience at all!

I've provided a handful of examples, there a whole lot more? Which ones do you disagree wiht?

It's my experience. .... I disagree with all your examples ..I've never experienced them

Agree!! Sorry typo

Yep.

I agree OP. Men who "see" women are rarer than men who don't. I am a teacher and have been for many years. I have taught countless boys who have been raised to see women as support humans, not authority figures. There are boys who persistently pick up behaviour sanctions from women where the male Head of Year will say "I don't have a problem with them." I wonder why that could possibly be...

I teach a lot of lovely boys who are not like this at all. But the "women are less important than men" contingent is strong and has been buoyed up by the rise of populist right wing parties.

How are you ruling out the fact that female teachers tend to have different styles of behaviour management to males being the cause for this rather than some bias on the part of students?

Men tend to be more authoritative, where as women tend to be more empathetic.

The thread seems to have moved on a bit, but this pair do some cracking piss takes of men
https://youtube.com/shorts/CpuK3FydwRQ?si=SbT7qnzR6uuI2jjb

There's an inbalance in perception and society expects more from women (more patience, tolerance, support, compromise, parenting, silence) than it does from men. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I think it's the reason when men show poor behaviour the default is often it's women's fault (they made him angry), while women's poor behaviour is also women's fault.

Roughly 50% of society is women. So what's going wrong?

The men on here muscling their way in claiming it is not a women’s space and that women talking together is an echo chamber do realise that they’re proving the point, right?

Men hate women and seek to exclude them from meaningful lives as much as possible. I think it’s down to a combination of basic male primate dominance structures, ie a fundamental biological assertion that might is right even in one of the physically weakest animals on the planet, and a recognition that essentially they need us more than we need them. That society fucking dolls would be extinct in one generation.

I’m not in total agreement. There may be a leaning towards women but there are characters who are scorned who are men.
small mealy mouthed jobs worth is always a man
slightly slow dad who can’t keep up with the mental machinations of mums and daughter’s quick brains in sit coms
road rage characters
cranky old neighbour is almost always a man
dirty old man
yobs