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Feminism: chat

Mother arrested in front of child by Met over bus fare (that she had paid!)

471 replies

TERFinTheHouse · 24/07/2023 22:21

Tw: upsetting content

twitter.com/saskia_cole/status/1682705268721737728?s=46&t=p6GESSn09HWHVXYgTLIbJg

Why was this woman arrested like this!?! Her poor child!

According to other Tweeters, she had paid her bus fare BTW.

OP posts:
WeetabixTowels · 25/07/2023 22:52

WandaWonder · 25/07/2023 02:41

So the only reason she was arrested was because she refused to show her ticket? nothing else happened that was just it?

People don’t get it do they - this is what black people experience every day. It doesn’t sound believable because for malt it isn’t - but minorities it’s a lived reality

WeetabixTowels · 25/07/2023 22:52

PerfectYear321 · 25/07/2023 02:57

Thats a very comprehensive defence of the woman in that controversial video. Please post the proof

In fairness, she has proved it was her bike.

WeetabixTowels · 25/07/2023 23:02

greenapple123 · 25/07/2023 21:52

Police have no time to investigate murders, sexual assaults and other serious crimes. People committing millions of pounds worth of financial crime are walking around scott free. But they have FOUR police officers to spare to handcuff and manhandle a mother in front of her child for 2 pounds!!! amazing!!

If you don't this has anything to do with racism, then please tell me of an incident where police has done something similar in chelsea or belgravia to a posh white woman in her Boden's. Would never happen in a million years.

Let's say the woman in this instance was illogical and refused to show proof of ticket. Then give her a penalty. Job done. Move on. What was the need to handcuff and arrest a mother travelling with a child for TWO pounds!!

Absolutely disgusting to see all the "feminist" mumsnetter's supporting police violance against a mother and refusing to even comment on the trauma caused to the child. Shame on you.

👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼

WeetabixTowels · 25/07/2023 23:05

viques · 25/07/2023 22:21

I imagine that many people caught fare cheating will cough up the penalty fare without too much fuss, but if they look as though they are going to do a runner then yes, why can’t they be detained. Do you honestly think that fare cheats are caught on their first offence? People who are determined not to pay will probably have been travelling free subsidised by honest people for a long time. Just like drink drivers, flashers and shoplifters very few will be caught first time, though of course they will claim that they have been.

Because it’s fate dodging not indecent exposure. HTH

viques · 25/07/2023 23:12

greenapple123 · 25/07/2023 22:30

@viques So you think people caught cheating pay the penalty fare on the spot? And what do you think happens if they make a fuss? Please take a look at this article from tfl - https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/penalty-fares-and-how-to-pay-them. If you are given a penalty fare, you pay for it later and there is an option to appeal. No one is standing over you, forcing you to pay it on the spot. that is not how it works.

If the woman in this instance was refusing to show her ticket, she should have been given a penalty fare. like it's done with everyone else. There was no need to handcuff or arrest her. Unless you think the law should be applied differently to black women.

Interesting you go on and on about cheaters and shoplifters, when it's a known fact that the woman in question was not one

Some pay on the spot, others have to satisfy the inspectors as to their identity or address and can be detained until these are verified.

I don’t think I “go on and on” about cheaters and shoplifters, but I do think that cheats and low level criminals cause damage both to large organisations like TFL - reducing their income and meaning that they have to spend unnecessary funds on policing the system - and also more directly to small businesses. Ultimately I think I resent having to pay extra to pay for thieves and cheats. Clearly you do not share this concern and do not see a problem with petty criminality ,the reasons for it or its effect on wider society.

i know nothing about the woman in the bus story apart from what I have read, nor have I suggested that she is a criminal, though I find her behaviour extremely odd. If you have paid a fare then you have done the hard part, why then be reluctant to confirm it to a ticket inspector, who is not a police officer but an employee of the transport body, in this case TFL.

And before you start charging me with racism I can tell you that yes, I am white, but am outnumbered in my immediate family by people who are not so am well aware of the issues non white people face daily.

AntiSocial6DaysAWeek · 25/07/2023 23:26

viques · 25/07/2023 23:12

Some pay on the spot, others have to satisfy the inspectors as to their identity or address and can be detained until these are verified.

I don’t think I “go on and on” about cheaters and shoplifters, but I do think that cheats and low level criminals cause damage both to large organisations like TFL - reducing their income and meaning that they have to spend unnecessary funds on policing the system - and also more directly to small businesses. Ultimately I think I resent having to pay extra to pay for thieves and cheats. Clearly you do not share this concern and do not see a problem with petty criminality ,the reasons for it or its effect on wider society.

i know nothing about the woman in the bus story apart from what I have read, nor have I suggested that she is a criminal, though I find her behaviour extremely odd. If you have paid a fare then you have done the hard part, why then be reluctant to confirm it to a ticket inspector, who is not a police officer but an employee of the transport body, in this case TFL.

And before you start charging me with racism I can tell you that yes, I am white, but am outnumbered in my immediate family by people who are not so am well aware of the issues non white people face daily.

So, you are irritated by fare dodgers, despite the fact the woman was not a fare dodger, because you supposedly have to pay more, but you are not irritated by the amount of public spends (that you pay towards) which were spent on handcuffing her? The amount of police there who could have been doing more important things?

And if the woman was abusive to police before the video started, why was she de-arrested once they knew she had paid her fare? Abusing police is surely a separate criminal matter and far more important than less than £2 bus fare.

fiftyandfat · 25/07/2023 23:34

If you travel on the Metro in Paris you had better show your ticket on request. The French police brook no argument from anybody.
I wouldn't dare refuse.

WeetabixTowels · 25/07/2023 23:35

fiftyandfat · 25/07/2023 23:34

If you travel on the Metro in Paris you had better show your ticket on request. The French police brook no argument from anybody.
I wouldn't dare refuse.

And if my Aunty had a dick she’d be my uncle - but a bit like your post, that’s entirely irrelevant and nothing to do with the woman in the OP

DojaPhat · 25/07/2023 23:37

WeetabixTowels · 25/07/2023 22:52

In fairness, she has proved it was her bike.

She must have turned on the tears in that case. An innate super power of sorts.

Paul2023 · 26/07/2023 00:50

Putting aside this particular incident, I’ve seen police officers in large numbers target rail stations and bus stops doing 100 per cent checks.
Someone that doesn’t pay for a ticket can get sent to court and can even be on an enhanced CRB check. Some years ago I was looking at someone’s PNC sheet and they had a recorded offence of not paying for their bus fare at some time in 1980s.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 26/07/2023 01:54

TERFinTheHouse · 25/07/2023 00:11

I started this thread as I am concerned about this woman and her child. As others have said, this memory will likely be a traumatic one for the boy sadly.

The police response seems disproportionate to the situation. At worst, she should have been issued a penalty if she refused to provide details of her ticket. No need for the police at all.

I have to disagree that anyone concerned about a black woman or her child would post in this section. This part of Mumsnet is where racial understanding and empathy come to die.

AntiSocial6DaysAWeek · 26/07/2023 02:13

Paul2023 · 26/07/2023 00:50

Putting aside this particular incident, I’ve seen police officers in large numbers target rail stations and bus stops doing 100 per cent checks.
Someone that doesn’t pay for a ticket can get sent to court and can even be on an enhanced CRB check. Some years ago I was looking at someone’s PNC sheet and they had a recorded offence of not paying for their bus fare at some time in 1980s.

But did they all get arrested by numerous police in front of their hysterical child or just sent to court or given a fine?

People are totally missing the traumatic experience that poor little boy went through (and his Mum). He won't forget that. It was heartbreaking to see. No one even removed him, they let him watch.

Once a long time ago I was accused of a crime because I had reported someone (an ex for assault) and they tried to turn it back on me as if it was me instead of them, so I had to be questioned.

I refused to speak to the police if my children were at home and insisted they made me an appointment at the station at a time that suited me. And they did it.

Now, obviously I was innocent and ex was trying to build a defence (didn't work, he pleaded guilty in the end). But I'm not sure I believe that a black woman insisting to police they speak to her without her children present would commonly happen going by this video.

I'm happy to be proven wrong. I don't ask people to educate me because it's not anyone else's job so I may be wrong, but I genuinely don't believe I would have been arrested in that same situation or have been so fearful in that situation because I'm not frightened of the police.

Because I'm white and all the police officers I know are white.

AntiSocial6DaysAWeek · 26/07/2023 02:20

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 26/07/2023 01:54

I have to disagree that anyone concerned about a black woman or her child would post in this section. This part of Mumsnet is where racial understanding and empathy come to die.

First time I've been on this section. I'm white and think I'll keep sticking to chat, relationships and aibu in future because it's so infuriating. God knows how you manage to keep your cool.

loveheartsonaflower · 26/07/2023 06:33

WeetabixTowels · 25/07/2023 23:02

👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼

💯 this

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 26/07/2023 06:36

loveheartsonaflower · 26/07/2023 06:33

💯 this

+1

Brefugee · 26/07/2023 06:44

Papernotplastic · 25/07/2023 21:36

The flat fare is £1.75. The penalty fare, if she hadn’t paid (which she had), is £40 if you pay within 21 days.

I don’t want someone handcuffed over a non violent crime where the most likely outcome is a £40 fine.

Hard agree.

For the racist "feminists" here: go away and boil your heads. It makes me ashamed to see so many women siding with the police here.

Listen to Black women when they tell you what their lives are like. Try to imagine having to have the talk with your son (and increasingly daughters)

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/07/2023 06:51

watcherintherye · 25/07/2023 14:09

Would you not question the intentions of this person and consider it a risk that she had such a bad overreaction to a simple request - what was she hiding/why was she refusing?

The only thing she could possibly have been hiding was that she was a £1.75 fare dodger! (She wasn’t). Maybe she’s had dozens of ‘simple requests’ in the past, maybe she or one of her family has been badly treated by the police, maybe she’d had a bad day. If the police can’t de-escalate a situation involving a mother with her child, whose only suspected offence is fare-dodging, I despair. I can see why there are so many awful things which hapoen when police have any contact with young black males, who are subject to even more outrageous stereotyping.

This is a very good point. The mistrust in the police and the way the police handle these situations can become a vicious circle. It is for the police to address this, to improve relations.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 26/07/2023 06:54

AntiSocial6DaysAWeek · 26/07/2023 02:20

First time I've been on this section. I'm white and think I'll keep sticking to chat, relationships and aibu in future because it's so infuriating. God knows how you manage to keep your cool.

I haven't always. I am just resigned to the fact that on this board:
Racism + Femism = Disappointment
The most vocal posters will fight to the death to ensure that this is the case.

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/07/2023 07:25

AntiSocial6DaysAWeek · 25/07/2023 20:21

My God.

Did you even watch the video? Are you telling me that some woman randomly started shouting for help and accusing the boy of hurting her unborn baby over a bike was a normal reaction? How do you know she was already on it, were you there? The boy had already been using it ffs.

Did you not see her taking the 'scary mans (boys)' phone right out his hand in the actual video?? Or her take off her lanyard because she presumably realised the shit she'd get in? Or that she started crying then immediately stopped without any tears? Bet if it was a white person she wouldn't have done ANY of that.

The fact that you have no more evidence to suggest she as in the right and immediately went on her side says a lot.

And just to add...'he could have hired another bike' (so could she...from reports on receipts she tapped the bike while he as holding it and that's why she took his phone so he couldn't, his receipt is one minute differnce)...'she wanted the snazzy electric bike'..who cares what she wants?! I'd imagine the boy just wanted a bike (that he was already using) to get home with his friends and not have some entitled woman trying to take the one he had! Why believe her and not him? Because his story is far more plausible and nothing to suggest otherwise. Her performance was a disgrace.

Jesus wept.

An American analysed the video and posted on YouTube. Look it up. Or look the thread up about it. It’s posted on there. He may have had his hand on the bike but he couldn’t use it as under the rules of the free 45 min scheme he had to wait 20 mins before being allowed to take the bike for free and the 20 mins weren’t up… again there is evidence to show this was the case.

The scheme is set up this way precisely so that paying members of the public can make use of the bikes otherwise there could be a situation, where no bikes are free for paying members. He just wanted this bike as it was a snazzy new electric one and he wanted to continue cycling with it. An older style pedal bike would have done the job but he wanted that particular bike.

He and his mates apparently go around scouting them out, which is a great hobby to have. But not to the detriment of others, who also want to use them when they’re not on hire. As was the case in this instance. She wasn’t stealing his bike.

The American in the video explained that the bike was 100% in the woman’s possession as the light was on indicating it was in hire. At this point the boy should have let go. Instead, he forcibly redocked it whilst she whilst she was attempting to take the bike away. I am not sure if she realised straight away he redocked it or if she thought he was trying to steal it from her. These bikes are very expensive and she’d have been liable.

What she then said put the boy in danger and she shouldn’t have said it. The boy (almost a man, 17, I think) acted like complete dick over a bike he didn’t own. She then also acted like a dick. Both were in the wrong. In that situation, I’d probably also have struggled to walk away. I wouldn’t have said what she said of course. In her defence, she’d just completed a 12 hour shift whereas the boys were pursuing a hobby. In his defence, he is young and was acting as though the bike was his when it was not.

Luckily one of his mates then de-escalated and told her to use the new style electric bike that he was also waiting to use. He acted more maturely than anyone else there. His mum otoh couldn’t see anything her boy did wrong, which I think was really sad, especially as she is a woman and should be teaching her boy to respect women in general and more so with vulnerable and pregnant women. Had my 15 yo dd done this, I’d have read her the riot act. And I’m sure if it had been his mum or sister in this situation, they’d have been horrified.

So yes, I’ve seen the video multiple times. And read several articles from different perspectives.

Oatycookies · 26/07/2023 07:34

FitAt50 · 24/07/2023 22:24

She apparently refused to show them the inspector that she had paid for her journey. Still no reason to treat her so terribly and clearly has racist undertones.

Yea, before I even clicked on the tweet link I knew this wouldn’t be a white mother or it wouldn’t have happened.

Oatycookies · 26/07/2023 07:37

londonmummy1966 · 24/07/2023 22:54

Unless the inspector had made a bee line for her on the bus and made her feel uncomfortable.

THere's a lot of aggression from one ethnic group in Croydon to black people and I wouldn't mind betting that this is the case here.

What ethnic group? 👀

Oatycookies · 26/07/2023 07:40

DojaPhat · 25/07/2023 00:08

@BombasticSideEye "It's nothing to do with her race!!!!" "The police are under so much pressure as it is." "This happened to me once and I'm Kate Middleton's half cousin, a quarter removed".

Mind you Bomb these are the same women who work in hospitals treating Black patients, the same women with Black colleagues, some unfortunately who manage Black people in their teams, the same women concerned about 'women's solidarity'. When I tell you that these are the type of women you must fear first and foremost, they'll call me crazy.

💯 this!

Oatycookies · 26/07/2023 07:57

SkylarSpirit · 25/07/2023 01:11

I used to live near a university known for being very posh and having a lot of extremely wealthy students, and would regularly see students fare dodging and sometimes being caught. Not once did I ever see a white person get in trouble for fare dodging, often they got off scot free even after being caught (and please remember this lady DID have a valid ticket).

I have multiple times witnessed obviously very posh white young men run away giggling or even shove people out of the way to avoid ticket inspectors. Even shove ticket inspectors out of the way to avoid getting busted for fare evasion. Guess what? Not once was any action taken. Not in a million years would police turn up and be physically violent to a posh-looking white person for not showing a bus ticket.

This thread is 100% racist and an example of how deeply entrenched hatred of black people is on Mumsnet and especially on Feminist Chat. Next time someone claims that GC views have been exploited to push far right/bigoted agendas, all we need to do is point them to this horrible white supremacist fest of a thread.

Just not arresting black people because they might be traumatised? Not arresting mothers as their children might be traumatised?

FOR NOT SHOWING A FUCKING ONE POUND BUS TICKET ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE??

You just know that if police starting routinely getting on buses in posh white areas, demanding everyone show them their tickets, and roughing them up and violently arresting them for failure to comply, there would be mass outrage. Except that would never happen, would it? We all know if this woman was white, none of this would have ever happened.

Very convenient for you to be try your hardest in multiple posts to twist this into the awful criminal black lady who deserved to be arrested.

you think we should just let black people not pay bus tickets if they don't fancy it?

She did pay.

All of this.

Im only half way through reading the replies on here but I think it’s time for me to bow out as I’m disgusted and want to bin off mumsnet altogether, but glad to see some people are talking sense.

For the absolute clowns who are saying it has nothing to do with race how many times have you seen / read about a white woman in London, let alone a middle class one arrested for evading a bus fare which is like a couple of pounds?

I don’t usually travel as i WFH but the rare time I do take the train I usually buy my tickets online on the app, and one day I had forgot to buy my ticket on my way back from hairdressers which I didn’t realise until I got off my train into train inspectors. I apologised and said I’d be happy to pay the penalty rate right there and there which is like £20. (And the journey was only £3.50 btw so I had no reason to intentionally skip it )

A very nasty and aggressive (white) woman demanded i give all my details and said I might have to go to court etc and they’d send me a notice in the next week.

next to me was a young white man (about age 18/19) who was mouthing off that they were making him late for probation. He didn’t have a ticket but unlike me he refused to give his details and show ID. (This young man had actually attempted to hide behind me and then make a run for it but the ticket inspectors had blocked his way). The woman treated him like a loveable rogue in the end and said “just don’t let me catch you here again with no ticket” and she let him go !!!

I was furious so when the letter came for me threatening me with a massive penalty, I emailed them back and told them exactly what happened as above and asked why the discriminatory treatment ? . They replied a day later saying, they would drop the matter and I was to make sure i had a ticket next time.

Clearly they must have spoken to the woman ticket inspector and found out what I said was true! Her racism actually helped me in a way because I got let off too as a result, but it was a perfect example of how laws and rules are imposed so harshly on POC while a white person - and they don’t even need to be middle or law abiding as this incident showed- will be given grace and understanding.

Oatycookies · 26/07/2023 08:05

Oh and one more thing - if I’d acted like that young white man who was “late for probation” and refused to give my ID to that ticket inspector I’m sure police would have been called and I’d have been arrested and closet racists would be making excuses for the inspector and the police .

The difference in the way the white female inspector treated me and the young man was like night and day.