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Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

Would you vote for anyone stupid enough to….

93 replies

Colourfingers2 · 23/05/2023 14:14

Would you vote for anyone stupid enough to believe that women can have penises and men can have vaginas which is basically every single bloody politician?
In my opinion anyone who believes that is too thick to run their own nose let alone the country.
There is literally not one politician or political party in this country worth voting for anymore with the possible exception of Suella Braverman who has the simple common sense to understand that this is a small Island nation with very limited resources which are already struggling with overpopulation. However I can’t vote for her so I won’t be voting at all this time round.
Does anyone else here not vote if there isn’t anyone worth voting for according to their beliefs?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12114785/Lib-Dem-leader-Ed-Davey-says-woman-quite-clearly-penis.html

Lib Dem leader Ed Davey says a woman can 'quite clearly' have a penis

A caller called Mary asked him on LBC to explain 'what is a woman', saying she was a tactical voter - a group which could help the Lib Dems pick off Tory seats at the next general election.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12114785/Lib-Dem-leader-Ed-Davey-says-woman-quite-clearly-penis.html

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 27/05/2023 21:44

begaydocrime42 · 23/05/2023 15:44

I'm not entirely sure how it will play out but I do think extreme GC views and the GC movement is going to fall apart eventually. I think most GCs are in denial that the movement has taken off mostly because of the anti-woke far right type narrative that many people have started identifying with which has its roots in conservatism. People aren't supporting GC because they care about women's rights or somehow everyone is becoming second wave feminists, it's taken off because of neoconservative/neotraditionalist ideas of gender are making a resurgence online and spilling into real life. I think the more rational and even headed of people who see the pros and cons in both TR movements and GC movements will probably look back on this time and shake their heads.

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There is nothing extreme about gender critical views.

The reason it has taken off is because nobody in their right mind believes that women can have penises.

And because the likes of Laurel Hubbard and Isla Bryson have shone some much needed light on the reality of this "be kind" bullshit.

rlstevie · 27/05/2023 21:45

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MargotBamborough · 27/05/2023 21:45

Girlboss1989 · 23/05/2023 16:10

You're denying the lived experience of millions of people across the world, the fact is that trans people have existed throughout human history and recently through modern science and changing social views it has become more acceptable to be openly transgender.

To say that someone with a penis can't be a woman is totally bigoted and oppressive because there are plenty of trans women who haven't been able to have surgery and therefore still have a penis, but are a woman in every other way. Not recognising this fact marginalises these people.

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And you're denying the lived experience of billions of women all over the world who don't share any kind of identity with trans women.

rlstevie · 27/05/2023 21:52

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Madamecastafiore · 27/05/2023 21:52

Trans women are men, full stop, they can be athletes or runners or none of the above but essentially they are men.

MargotBamborough · 27/05/2023 21:53

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"Trans women are women" is just "Brexit means Brexit" for woke people. Meaningless.

rlstevie · 27/05/2023 21:56

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MargotBamborough · 27/05/2023 21:58

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I disagree. Blind belief in something despite all the evidence to the contrary. The two things seem pretty similar to me.

The phrase "trans women are women" is meaningless unless you can explain what a woman is.

No one who says trans women are women can explain what a woman is, and no one who can explain what a woman is believes a trans woman is one.

rlstevie · 27/05/2023 22:01

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Florissant · 27/05/2023 22:05

Girlboss1989 · 23/05/2023 15:24

Hate to break it to you but the reason most politicians hold these opposing views from you is because your views are totally bigoted and oppress a marginalised group in society. I'm afraid the next generation will look back at people like you the same way that we look back on the homophobia and racism from the 20th century.

Biscuit
rlstevie · 27/05/2023 22:07

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MargotBamborough · 27/05/2023 22:11

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You're a woman because you're female. There's no such thing as feeling like a woman because being a woman isn't a feeling and you don't actually know what it feels like to be anybody except yourself. You will never wake up with a penis, because you're female, and body swaps only happen in comedy blockbusters, not real life. If somebody's chromosomes are male they are male. Whatever they think they feel like, what they feel like is not a woman, because a woman is a female person. There is no amount of hormones or surgery that will ever make a trans woman a woman as far as I am concerned, because humans cannot change sex. When I was three years old I knew I was a girl because I had a vulva and not a penis. Saying it is about your feelings is sexist, unscientific claptrap.

HTH.

bigbabycooker · 27/05/2023 22:14

@rlstevie

See, I disagree. I am a woman but only really because of biology. I would happily give up all the "woman" crap that I do to fit in - the make up, the social conditioning, the pressure to be kind as likeable, the femininity requirements. All of it. The only reason I am happy as a woman is because I am one - I don't identify with any of the reasons most trans women cite for loving being a woman, they're usually just very superficial. Biology gave me my kids and the chance to carry them, so I am much happier since having kids. Biology is not everything, but it is irrefutable. Ultimately, if trans women were women, it wouldn't need to be said - logically, it has to be a conscious decision to include them; all we are saying is that there are pretty good trains not to include them sometimes. I'd happily cheer on "trans women are trans women", but I'll never believe they are female.

Ofcourseshecan · 01/06/2023 09:17

TiredOfCleaning · 23/05/2023 16:20

I will never vote for a politician who is preapred to deny basic science and basic reality. I will not vote for a politician who has an eye to populist rubbish rather than scientific evidence and fact. I will not vote for any politician who would throw women and children under a bus to appease a vocal, violent aggressive part of society that is NOT promoting vulnerable minorities but is instead promoting and propagating blatant violent misogyny.

Same here. Women have good reason to fear men living out their sex fantasies in public and demanding a female audience.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 01/06/2023 12:20

I'm defo more on the GC side (not rabidly though). However, I think it's a tough argument to say that the trans thing is 'all about the feelz' or is a mental illness. You could say the same about homosexuality and indeed people did used to think it was a form of ailment.

moonriverandme · 01/06/2023 12:29

If a politician will lie about the reality of sex I won't trust them about other things they say & I won't vote for them.You can't defend women's rights if you're unclear about what a woman is.
Sex is immutable, spaces in women's hostels, prisons, sports, refuges are not alternatives for men who are not happy with gendered expectations of them.
Men however they present are a danger to women. We can't tell the harmless from the harmful so we exclude all men.
I don't believe that gender exists, it's based on regressive stereotypes of behaviour, clothing & feelings, which are subjective. Dress how you want & have whatever name appeals, doesn't change your sex nor does surgery.

liwoxac · 01/06/2023 12:40

MovinGroovinBarbie · 01/06/2023 12:20

I'm defo more on the GC side (not rabidly though). However, I think it's a tough argument to say that the trans thing is 'all about the feelz' or is a mental illness. You could say the same about homosexuality and indeed people did used to think it was a form of ailment.

But there's a huge difference between homosexuality (= same-sex attraction) and trans (= changing sex). We can explain this in an 'all about the feels' way ...

-- Suppose a man sincerely says he feels attracted to men. Since to feel attracted is to be attracted, what he says must be true. (He's sincere, we're assuming, remember.)

-- Suppose, on the other hand, a man sincerely says he feels he has changed sex (and is now a woman). Since it is impossible to change sex, what he says must be false. (Even given he's sincere.)

It's not a mental illness to be same-sex attracted. It's just to feel attracted to people of the same sex. Nothing wrong with that feeling.

You may not need to be mentally ill to honestly feel you have changed sex. But you are at best mistaken if you do feel that. Something is wrong with this latter feeling in that it gets things wrong.

Waystation · 01/06/2023 12:50

JulieHoney · 23/05/2023 17:45

the fact that people spend some much time and effort bemoaning the very existence

Oh come on @Girlboss1989, no one gives a stuff about “bemoaning very existence”. Dress how you like, pick a gender presentation that suits you. I don’t care if Grayson Perry wants to wear a dress or Annie Lennox wore suits, I grew up with people messing about with gender norms.

What concerns us is conflating that gender presentation with sex; transwomen do not belong in single sex spaces or women’s prisons or women’s sport.

People who have male bodies are as a cohort a potential risk to women, despite most individuals being fine. Out of respect for women’s safety and dignity, sometimes divisions on the grounds of sex are needed.

This -

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 01/06/2023 12:57

Ohfgsjon · 23/05/2023 16:51

I really couldn't give a shit. You're deluded quite frankly.

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Halfterm, innit.

MorrisZapp · 01/06/2023 13:23

I'm quite looking forward to the next elections at Holyrood and Westminster. They can't just waffle it any more, journalists are on to this and will push for actual explanations.

That young guy pushing Nicola Sturgeon on whether a male rapist was a woman or not was bloody brilliant and he went viral.

They can't hide if they're standing for public office, they need to answer the voters questions.

jgw1 · 01/06/2023 14:19

Would you vote for anyone stupid enough to attend the NatC conference where at least one MP is reported to have advocated for less education for girls so they can have more babies...

jgw1 · 01/06/2023 14:20

MorrisZapp · 01/06/2023 13:23

I'm quite looking forward to the next elections at Holyrood and Westminster. They can't just waffle it any more, journalists are on to this and will push for actual explanations.

That young guy pushing Nicola Sturgeon on whether a male rapist was a woman or not was bloody brilliant and he went viral.

They can't hide if they're standing for public office, they need to answer the voters questions.

Are you looking forward to the next election because you have seen the latest predicted results?

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

General Election Prediction

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

Kiwano · 01/06/2023 14:24

Wavescrashingonthebeach · 23/05/2023 16:07

@Girlboss1989

What about the girls who were raped by trans people?

What about the vastly greater number of girls who were raped by non-trans people? My vote goes to the party that will deal with that irrespective of its views on trans issues.

Kiwano · 01/06/2023 14:26

OP, what exactly has Braverman actually done for women that makes you think she is worth voting for? And I stress "done" rather than "spouted some empty rhetoric".

jgw1 · 01/06/2023 14:29

Kiwano · 01/06/2023 14:24

What about the vastly greater number of girls who were raped by non-trans people? My vote goes to the party that will deal with that irrespective of its views on trans issues.

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You mean that you won't be voting for a government that has all but legalised rape.

Wow.