Is Meghan, Duchess of Sussex really a feminist?

[polkadotdalmation]

I'm asking here because this is the feminist section and it's nothing to do with her title or husbands royalty.
She accepted a feminism award from a feminist icon (Gloria steinberg) for her feminist work.

I'm not interested in her stand against racism or any of her other projects, and don't want to muddy the waters with these questions.

So is she a feminist icon?

Seems a pretty fair assessment 👏

I agree with you. The fact people are questioning her feminism and not their own as they criticise her every move is 😳

I just saw a meme that said, ‘The first rule of burning down the patriarchy is not to use other women for kindling.’

I knew someone would say this 😂

Feminism is supposed to support free speech of women, not close it down. If your form of feminism actually forbids me from being critical of women such as Liz Truss, Angela Raynor, Jo Swinson, Nicola Sturgeon, Michelle O'Neill, the Princess of Wales, the Duchess of Sussex, my mother, then that is not a form of feminism that I recognise or indeed want to recognise.

who is closing your speech down? Nobody here.

When people assert that it's anti-feminist to criticise another woman, including MM, I'd take that as an attempt to close a person down.

It depends if the criticism is warranted I s'pose.....

Based on some people's definitions, every single woman is a feminist just because she makes decisions - even if they are heavily weighted against the values of classic feminism (like in this case).

When people assert that it's anti-feminist to criticise another woman

Have people done that? It is how and why she is criticised that is the issue. Not that women cannot be criticised, including other posters. Some comments are being criticised for their actual misogynistic views.

To be a feminist is not to be imperfect. It is not anti-feminist to be married, share finances or to be ambitious. I am not sure what 'classic feminism' is meant to mean.

I believe she sees herself as a feminist so I am not going to judge that; I don’t know her personally to be able to do so although I can see that there have been occasions she has portrayed herself publicly as such.

I don’t consider her an icon. The status of icon is difficult to obtain and few make it. As things stand, I’ve seen little of substance behind Meghan’s feminist actions and she will need to do a lot more to be an icon.

Lots of comments above on marrying Harry for the title, power, and prestige but I think he could easily be the irreversible damage to her reputation yet.

If she sees herself as a feminist then she's a feminist. A lot of women see feminism as a dirty word these days so I think you're looking in the wrong direction in starting a feminism post on Mumsnet. Just say you hate Meghan and go

I agree with this, marrying Harry has not been good for her. She was better off without him and could have easily married someone much more rich and famous (and better looking and with less issues!). He was no prize.

Exactly. That's why she gets so much hate. It's jealousy

Yes.

Absolutely agree with this. I’m a SAHM to 3 girls, it’s 100% my decision to do it, it’s all I’ve ever wanted to do, not because I believe it’s a woman’s job to stay home but because I had a shit abusive toxic nasty mother and I never wanted my children to grow up feeling the way I did. I always wanted to devote my life to my children and be what ever they needed me to be.

My daughters know they can be what ever they want, they know about the suffragette movement, my 11yo recently made me suffragette earrings because she knows how passionate I feel about it, my DDs know I stay home because I want to and because I can and they know I once had a career that earned more than my DH. They know they never should answer to anyone, especially a man.

I believe I’ve done an alright job on educating then on trans rights and issues. They know we as a family are now boycotting certain brands (Nike) because of their treatment of women.

I think I’m doing a pretty good job and raising reasonable, level headed feminists.

I agree with the first paragraph completely.

Feminism has always been all over the place. It's a series of discrete schools of thought, often in direct conflict with one another, which have occupied some of the most bitterly contested political ground of the 20th and 21st centuries. Cf the 'wages for housework' vs' 'woman citizen' schools of the first wave, the radicals of the second wave vs. advocates for equality, pretty much the whole of the third wave, some of which seems to be positively anti-women, or intersectionality vs gender critical (admittedly a loose opposition).

To me it's perfectly clear what feminism means. It's the fight for equality of opportunity for women, for equal pay for equal work, for the right to vote and participate fully in our society as equal citizens, of not being discriminated against because you're female. It's also the fight against our oppression at the hands of a systemic patriarchal society and individual males: against those who would oppress, abuse, rape and murder us.

It's not, and has never been, about 'choice'.

As to whether Meghan Markle fits with any of these criteria or is merely paying lip-service, I don't know her so I'm not competent to judge. Whilst I'm a staunch republican, if we MUST have these unelected representatives foisted on us then Camilla's championing against VAWG - not always a popular cause - is about as commendable a goal as any.

No one makes choices in a vacuum. Women make these choices because, sometimes, they are the only practical options available to us within a systemic patriarchal society which is wholly geared up to benefit the interests of men.

For sure, some men are stay-at-home dads. Some (I suspect probably even fewer) change to their wives' family names on marriage. But you can bet your boots they are strictly in the minority.

'Feminism' is not about the choices you make as an individual. Far from it. It's about redressing those structural inequalities to achieve a more level playing field, to reduce discrimination on the basis of sex, and to fight against the very real dangers of being abused, raped or killed by a man. In years gone by, they were about our rights to our own bodily autonomy, to whether or if we had children and under what conditions, and about our right to be citizens with an equal political voice and vote. Sometimes, feminism has been a fight to the death. To reduce it to a personal decision as to how your household structures its paid vs. domestic labour is to diminish those efforts.

'Princess' is admittedly not a particularly feminist concept. In terms of those who are, Meghan Markle has in various small ways championed the interests of women - the Grenfell women and the transition of women returners back into the workplace. Madeleine of Sweden has championed unpopular causes in support of trafficking victims and victims of sexual abuse and assault. Camilla's stance against VAWG is also commendable.

I don't see the others doing anything much with their platforms that can in any way be described as 'feminist'.

NB. I'm prepared to stand corrected re. my last paragraph, and hope that I will be. I suspect that, if so, those examples will come from beyond Britain.

And based around the ideal of working in a man's world and how much one 'achieves'. It's not embracing of all women from every class (ime).

A lot of feminism does seem to be about copying men IMO. The fact that many want completely equal representation, even in areas most women aren't interested in. And also how so many women swear blind that they find their office jobs fulfilling, whike most blokes seem to do it for the money and not some type of life affirmation.

Have they won awards for being feminists?

I would say Nicola Sturgeon was good for feminism before she said TWAW.
The constant need for women to look good before they get recognition is a massive hurdle. Any woman that can wield power without being beautiful I consider a notch up. I know Kate and Megs can’t help being pretty but if they ditched the Botox, teeth whitening and embraced the grey etc I think it would help women more widely.

This sums it up pretty well for me. Women gatekeeping feminism from other women isn't it. Surely we each operate on the basis that we are feminist in the best way we see fit. I also think it's interesting you say you don't want to include any of her work around racism. I don't believe you can be feminist and not be actively working against racism so they go hand in hand for me.

but if they ditched the Botox, teeth whitening and embraced the grey etc I think it would help women more widely. This policing of women choices about their bodies is not feminism.

Yes, she is a feminist. Are you a feminist OP?