Pregnant NYC Bike "Karen" was the victim, not the agressor

[littleripper]

Trial by social media for a pregnant woman who cried when a man tried to steal the bike she's hired is tried and hung by social media, and put on unpaid leave from her job, with no evidence or investigation:

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a43920956/pregnant-nyc-karen-on-video-trying-to-steal-a-black-mans-citi-bike/

https://news.yahoo.com/receipts-show-hospital-worker-accused-170920174.html

It turns out she had paid for the bike and he has no evidence he paid. But he is not the subject of the internets wrath, no consequences for him.

I hope she takes her employers to court and wins a massive settlement. Surreal levels of misogyny and hatred directed to a pregnant healthcare worker who did nothing wrong at all.

Will this ever be recognised for what it is?

@Lndnmummy I'm not ridiculing you. Where your child has different experiences to you, of course they are going to discuss that with you and bring a different perspective. But that's not what you said.
No child should be 'keeping their mother in check'. Or calling her to account if he thinks she's being a 'Karen' - that slur should have no place in any woman's household.
I think there might be a lot of misogyny going on unseen in your household.
I'm honestly not trying to mock you but in all seriousness your post didn't read how you thought it did

This statement is a perfect example of how white feminism betrays women of colour and Allies. Your failure to recognise any other reality than your toxic version of white centred feminism. This version of feminism is as oppressive as any misogynist or patriarchal system and has little to offer non white women or the mothers of non white or mixed children. These groups of people have experiences with are distinct from group to group and from those of white women. Any attempt to explain this is shouted down with entitled, fact and reality twisting sneers, like yours, and cliched chants of what about the men. What about them? Your oppressive, violence enabling offering is no better than theirs.

@Lndnmummy Don't waste your breath. You are worthy of better company.

Tbh I don't think I'm the person failing to recognise reality here.

Anyway, I'm out. I cba to listen to you ranting and this is just going round in circles - it's pointless

What version of feminism is it that encourages a child to pull their mother up on her behaviour, or encourages a child to use a misogynist slur towards their mother?

Surely the same version of feminism that would encourage girls to pull up their fathers on their behaviour would also recognise that black children should be able to do the same with their white parents. Unquestioning obedience to parental authority is not part of any feminism that I recognise. That feels distinctly un-radical to me. If feminists recognise structural oppression in sex then they should be able to see it when it comes to race.

The thing is, if using racist or sexist language is wrong, it won't be solved by encouraging the next generation to use a different type of slur.

Excellent posts @Takoneko , thank you.

Thank you

Thank you

I don't expect (and certainly don't get) 'unquestioning obedience' from my children, nor would I think that a good thing. I get disagreement, debate, argument sometimes, and of course am willing to listen and consider their point of view. But I don't expect my child to 'keep me in check', as the PP stated, nor would I accept my child calling me a Karen, that's a misogynistic slur. I'd no more accept that than I'd accept them calling me a slut.

If feminists recognise structural oppression in sex then they should be able to see it when it comes to race.

Ooh now there you go telling the bitter truth on this board. Don't say it too loud, they don't recognise this as valid.

Are you a white mother of a black child? I think there’s an important context that is missing if you’re not. If you and your children are both white, or indeed both black, there is a fundamental difference from a white parent raising a child from a minoritised ethnic background. My extended family is a mix of ethnicities and I have never found it inappropriate for mixed race children to keep the rest of the family “in check” in the sense of calling us out when we have inadvertently caused them pain or discomfort by our actions.

I agree with this too.

Pulling someone up on something is quite different from keeping them in check. The former may be uncomfortable but can increase understanding, the latter is controlling and nasty.

I agree too about slurs. Even if you are happy to accept being slurred by your own child, it's poor parenting to let it go because your child learns that it's acceptable to slur people. It's not acceptable and even if you think it's deserved and are saying it really loudly in your own head it's not useful to say it unless you actively want to shut down communication.

I don't have the same skin colour or ethnicity as my children, though their ethnicity is not usually as obvious to strangers as say, my DPs grandchildren who are half white British half Nigerian. Maybe this is semantic in that I'm taking something from the phrase 'keep me in check' that you don't take. I take that as controlling or 'pulling rank', but I can understand you may not. But I can't accept the idea that my child using a slur towards me is acceptable, to me it just isn't, any more than I'd use an equivalent one towards them.

But I can't accept the idea that my child using a slur towards me is acceptable, to me it just isn't, any more than I'd use an equivalent one towards them.

Exactly. It's a matter of respect. Once that has gone in a family it can quickly turn into an abusive situation. Absolutely raise issues and pull each other up, in good faith and with space for discussion and understanding, but don't 'keep each other in check' and don't call each other names.

I’m baffled because the woman in the video wasn’t exercising white privilege over a black person: she was distressed and outnumbered in an altercation.

The fact that women can be racist isn’t debatable, nor that women act out racism in a different way from men.
“If you disagree with me you’re racist”: that’s been the point of this thread.

Excellent and distressing post. I've no idea what's going on in the black mumsnetters topic, but I agree that CRT at least in it's current form isn't progressive, inclusive, diverse or any of the other buzzwords people use to make themselves feel righteous. Much like in the TRA movement, a lot of bullying and hatred emerges in any movement which can't be questioned on its rightness.

Not a feminist? Your choice. But don't expect to police me or my feminism, because you think you outrank me in oppression top trumps. I never thought MN would provide such an example of how women can't have anything without being told to move over, think about others, prioritise those have it worse than you, but here we are.

Agree with both of you, especially with this:

a lot of bullying and hatred emerges in any movement which can't be questioned on its rightness

I think we need to distinguish the original use of "Karen" by black Americans (and by extension black people elsewhere?) vs its appropriation by white people. In the latter case it is usually just a straightforward misogynistic slur; but the former is a bit more complicated, and I don't think I'd want to say for sure whether it is or is not misogynistic in that context.

I've just read (most of) this thread - some of the racist assumptions, unacknowledged privilege and ignorance here are shocking. I just want to say thanks to those posters who (in what seems to be quite a small minority) are standing up against it.

You mean the assumptions made about the victim in this case, who was assumed to be the aggressor because of the colour of her skin? I mean, I don't personally think being a lone woman in an argument with a group of men is a privilege, but you do you.

It is ALWAYS a misogynistic slur when used as an insult.

@CremeEggsForBreakfast has nailed it . We don't know who is in the wrong here, we don't know it's a racial issue. It could be but we don't know.