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Feminism: chat

#tradwife

139 replies

HangingOver · 19/02/2023 02:11

Behold!

www.instagram.com/reel/CosDY4RDOM7/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

I think I threw up in my mouth.

OP posts:
Botw1 · 19/02/2023 19:13

@CandlelightGlow

I don't think the end goal of feminism is to get women out the home.

There is so much more to feminism than the tired old sahm debate

CandlelightGlow · 19/02/2023 19:14

Dacadactyl · 19/02/2023 19:03

No, not to MEN. To their HUSBAND, should they CHOOSE to be. The important parts (and the important distinctions) are capitalised.

You fail to see though that the words "choosing" and "subservience" in this context are paradoxical.

You don't actually get to choose to be subservient. So either you are willingly or at least knowingly performing patriarchal gender roles which actively harm you and put you at a disadvantage, or you are just pretending to be subservient by performing stereotypical behaviours, safe in the knowledge that if you wanted to exit that situation you could.

It's a gross misappropriation of actual female subjugation, which is how the majority of women have lived most of their lives, and how many still continue to do so today.

allthelittlelights · 19/02/2023 19:14

If my husband had 'the final say' on everything, we'd be fucking bankrupt.

CandlelightGlow · 19/02/2023 19:15

Botw1 · 19/02/2023 19:13

@CandlelightGlow

I don't think the end goal of feminism is to get women out the home.

There is so much more to feminism than the tired old sahm debate

Well that's what I was getting at, I guess we agree 🙂 (this is not sarcastic I hope it doesn't come across that way)

Dacadactyl · 19/02/2023 19:16

ChilliBandit · 19/02/2023 19:03

@Dacadactyl - we are all products of our environment, it doesn’t mean that we have to carry on as our parents did. I find it very troubling you see no issue with someone being subservient to their husband. Being a SAHM isn’t in itself subservient. It’s harder work than most jobs I’d wager. Why is there a need to be subservient? My husband works less hours than me and does more childcare, should he be subservient to me?

I agree wholeheartedly that it doesn't mean we have to just "live as our parents did". However, if you grew up seeing the benefits of that way of doing things and want to recreate that as a couple, there is no issue in my mind.

FWIW, my mum always had full control of the family finances (even though she never worked after the age of 35 and shes 70 now) and my dad got an allowance out of his wages.

If your husband took the view that he would defer to you in financial matters because you earned the majority if the money, I'd see no issue with that either, as long as both of you were happy about it.

I am not (and never have been) a subservient wife. It's not how I was brought up either.

But, if both parts of a couple agree that one party is the subservient one, I see no issue.

CandlelightGlow · 19/02/2023 19:21

But, if both parts of a couple agree that one party is the subservient one, I see no issue

😷🙄

If you are both so very equal and you have made a choice and are as involved in the choices of the household as he, why do you feel the need to label anyone "subservient". Are you not just fulfilling different roles in your family unit? What needs to be inherently masculine about earning money and what needs to be inherently feminine about staying at home?

It's all some bullshit and enforcing this roles is literally what patriarchy is and is directly antithetical to feminism.

ChilliBandit · 19/02/2023 19:25

@CandlelightGlow - I very much agree it’s coming from a place of privilege, standing on the shoulders of women who have struggled for women’s freedoms. I have never seen a non white middle-class American “tradwife”. For the women actually having to be subservient to their husbands, it’s life, not something remarkable enough for them to post on social media. It’s an MRA fetish trying to be made mainstream.

Dacadactyl · 19/02/2023 19:26

@CandlelightGlow I wouldn't label someone as subservient in temrs of my own relationship, but it seems to fit how this tradwife thing works. She is subservient to her husband and it works for them.

Yes, I agree that my husband and I fulfil different roles within the family unit, neither of us subservient to the other.

I am not a feminist personally and I think a lot of feminism is harmful to women.

ThePopesSecretary · 19/02/2023 19:39

I work with a lot of men in high-powered positions. Most of them are in fairly "traditional" marriages (i.e., "SHE's a SAHM - or works a job making less than half of what he makes, which means HE is free to fly to Vietnam, India and Germany all week every other week - because: business!". Even my male colleagues find the concept of a "tradwife" utterly weird and somewhat unsettling!

Colleague A's wife doesn't care about his business travel - but she insists he's home Fridays because she has a life of her own!

Colleagues B's wife I have actually never met - despite having worked with her husband for half a decade (multi-week trips and weekends away included): he does all that and it's fine with her - but she does not and will not play at "executive spouse". In other words: she flat out refuses to host us or to turn up to "+1 included" social events.

Colleague C's wife has a perfectly normal, nowhere nearly as highly paid as his, FT job. Their kids are teens. She does more of the housework, he contributes more to the bills. I might not agree, but it's their arrangement.

None of these women come anything close to being "surrendered" to their husbands. And, good on them, too!

There's a world of difference between "making an arrangement" (being divorced, I personally wouldn't - but: each to their own on that one!) and actively propagating as a "lifestyle" the dehumanisation of women!

CandlelightGlow · 19/02/2023 19:39

@ChilliBandit I completely agree, it's horrible to watch :( I actually found Mrs Midwest because I was searching for videos about growing bleached hair out!! A channel called FundieFridays does a really concise video on her, and in it she actually shows footage of MM admitting she used generic beauty/hair/style videos to "soften" the actual message of her channel (which is the tradwife stuff). She even is mates with that lovely, super friendly to women dude who created the definitely not misogynistic hellhole website Return of the Kings.

@Dacadactyl could you explain why you believe feminism is harmful to women? I'm genuinely interested because I know your position is by no means unique.

CandlelightGlow · 19/02/2023 19:41

@ThePopesSecretary Exactly - and your examples just go to demonstrate how this whole Tradwife thing is just a weird regressive fetish. It's perfectly possible to be in an equal relationship even when the gender roles are traditional.

Botw1 · 19/02/2023 19:46

@Dacadactyl

You don't believe women are equal to men?

How is feminism harmful to women?

ChilliBandit · 19/02/2023 19:47

@CandlelightGlow - I am a big fan of FundieFriday - her videos are so well researched and presented.

Dacadactyl · 19/02/2023 19:53

@CandlelightGlow because I think it lets crap men get away with too much. I also think society is harned by it.

If you look at the past (and I am by no means whatsoever saying it was a utopia) if a man got you pregnant, he was expected to provide for you. Now he can do a runner and leave you up shit creek, having to work all hours trying to put food on the table. And that's just the affect on you, let alone the affect on the kids.

And I've seen on here, posts from women castigating someone for struggling as a single mum saying "well you could've had an abortion". This wont be popular but I personally think abortion harms women and society.

And also, women in crap relationships are putting up with having to work FT, look after the kids, do all the housework etc as we see so often on here. So that's why I can't get behind feminism.

89ghud · 19/02/2023 19:55

@Dacadactyl you're very naive to think there's ever been a time where men have actually been expected to provide for a pregnant woman, there has always been a way for shit men to opt out, always will be, that's nothing to do with feminism.

And you're incredibly ignorant to say abortion harms society, you think forced pregnancy is better?

anotheragain · 19/02/2023 19:56

RoseslnTheHospital · 19/02/2023 17:22

This is a role play, larping as a 1950s fictional style housewife, put on in order to generate content for her media channels. A genuinely "traditional wife" wouldn't be spending all her time making and editing videos, and posting online in order to earn.

Feminism isn't about all choices being equal. It's about being able to speak about the harm caused to women (all women) by the various issues that exist in a patriarchal society (explicitly patriarchal or implicitly so). It's not anti-feminist to discuss how choices are not made in a vacuum and how promoting some choices might be damaging for women and girls in the longer term.

All of this.

Dacadactyl · 19/02/2023 19:57

@89ghud you are incredibly ignorant if you think abortion does not equally benefit shit men.

89ghud · 19/02/2023 20:00

@Dacadactyl I don't care about the men, good or bad, I only care about pregnant women not being forced into birth or a life they don't want, that is all that matters.

WeWereInParis · 19/02/2023 20:03

And I've seen on here, posts from women castigating someone for struggling as a single mum saying "well you could've had an abortion". This wont be popular but I personally think abortion harms women and society.

Anyone who says to a struggling mum "well you could have had an abortion" is a shit.
But the fact that some people say that does not mean that abortion harms women. Abortion clearly does not harm women. No woman is harmed by having more control over how many children they have.

Botw1 · 19/02/2023 20:03

@Dacadactyl

None of that has anything to do with feminism

And of course access to abortion isn't harmful to women

Grumpybutfunny · 19/02/2023 20:04

I would love to be a stay at home wife (not the gym thing tho!) and would have the house kept immaculate. DH he just reminded me tho that I would likely last a few weeks before I was back on the job hunt 🤣 it's more likely I will end up keeping DH and the house better be tidy when I get in

Happysalley · 19/02/2023 20:04

Aw bless. Good for you love, come back and see us after a couple of kids and an affair.

RoseslnTheHospital · 19/02/2023 20:05

@Dacadactyl all the available evidence shows that abortion is not harmful to women and society. It's not about "letting shit men off the hook" it's about giving women and girls the ability to determine their own future path.

Men have always abandoned women if they didn't fancy supporting the resulting children. It's not a phenomenon unique to the 20th century alongside feminist action.

Dacadactyl · 19/02/2023 20:06

Yes I realise you will all probably disagree with me that abortion is harmful to women and society. But there is nothing anyone can say that will change my mind on the issue. At all, ever.

And abortion is an issue championed by feminists so I'd say most feminists would say its a feminist issue.

RoseslnTheHospital · 19/02/2023 20:08

Dacadactyl · 19/02/2023 20:06

Yes I realise you will all probably disagree with me that abortion is harmful to women and society. But there is nothing anyone can say that will change my mind on the issue. At all, ever.

And abortion is an issue championed by feminists so I'd say most feminists would say its a feminist issue.

So even in the face of research, studies, evidence... nothing would shift your mindset? Not a rational or reasonable position to hold. Yours is simply a belief based on your opinion only. Easy to disprove and discount, then.