Rich men using a surrogate - miscarriage

[BlueThomas]

I read an article about two Made in Chelsea stars using a surrogate who sadly had a miscarriage. If just really doesn’t sit well with me. From the article

Obviously we’re in a very fortunate position, we can go again. But you know it’s not, it’s not easy

im sorry but a woman out there somewhere is undergoing a miscarriage. That is what is not easy no mention of her at all in the article or how sorry they are for what she is going through. It’s all about them.

also doesn’t sit well describing themselves as fortunate they can go again. What about the women putting themselves through ivf and miscarriages for these men - how many times will they put women through this?

www.her.ie/celeb/made-chelsea-stars-ollie-gareth-locke-reveal-surrogate-miscarriage-569977

So you have found a surrogate who doesn’t want any payment for having a baby for you? That is very unusual.

im afraid the only mother the baby will have known is the mother carrying the baby, regardless of the genetics of the embryo. It’s that mothers voice they will hear during pregnancy and her heartbeat they will be comforted by. To then be exchanged for money and given to you - a complete stranger.

I’m sorry you may not like to hear it but that is the reality of surrogacy.

It might be “biologically” yours but you’re still using another woman’s body.

Paying for the use of a woman’s body for your own gain is wrong and that’s not even considering the baby who will be taken away from its mother instantly.

pregnancy is extremely risky and I’ve been left with issues that still affect me now, 3 years after the birth of my twins

In my opinion it should be illegal.

I've found this thread quite difficult, I'm not sure where I really stand with surrogacy to be honest. However, I do think they have suffered a loss. They haven't physically but I have lost a baby/embryo and my partner would have also lost that baby. Somebody mentioned because they haven't physically felt the pain of the loss then they haven't lost their baby!? They have, my partner absolutely has! Even if you find surrogacy wrong, it would be like going through the adoption process of a women who is pregnant and she loses that baby, you would also feel that loss.

I am also a women that is 3 rounds deep of IVF and surrogacy has crossed my mind for a fleeting moment, mostly because I could still use my own egg and my sister has jokingly said she would carry for me (not that I know if I would ever do that). I do however feel adoption is the better route than surrogacy for same sex couples who aren't able to fall pregnant. There are a lot of children that need a family out there.

If you are referring to my post, I didn't say they haven't lost a baby. I said they didn't have a miscarriage. I have had multiple miscarriages, and my DH has suffered the loss of our babies, absolutely. But he hasn't had a miscarriage and they are very different things, physically and emotionally.

It’s grim. No empathy at all for the poor woman experiencing the miscarriage. Misogyny at it’s finest.

Things like 25% of pregnancies ending in miscarriage won't even have crossed their minds though, it's so far outwith their own experience. That's like saying to me 25% of artic exploration expeditions end in disaster (completely made up statistic) - it's so far outside my 'bubble' that I would never have thought to go and research that.

They are not interested in a full, human picture of pregnancy and childbirth. They're interested in buying an end product. Actually maybe modern slavery is a better example. No-one's interested in the wee kids mining uranium to build our phones, they just want phones. No-one's interested in the pregnancies that don't make it, they just want babies.

Agreed.

While my husband was sympathetic and sad he absolutely didn’t go through what I did when I had a miscarriage.

I was in so much pain, there was so much blood and went through an emotional rollercoaster. And the awful feeling of emptiness afterwards. Men cannot understand this

@HermioneKipper I would not be paying for a baby so your point it mute!

So someone would be doing this for free out of the goodness of their hearts would they?

I doubt it highly.

but even if they did, it’s the height of entitlement and selfishness to expect someone to risk their body like this. As I said, 3 years later I still have serious issues with my health.

And the baby? Do you care about their well-being by ripping them from the only mother they’ve ever known as soon as they’re born? Heard of the 4th trimester?

All this aside, I’m very sorry for your health problems. This must be awful to deal with 💐

So you just plan on taking one from a woman who grew and birthed it. No concern for that woman or for the baby you would be taking away from the only mother it’s ever known? As long as you get a baby who cares right?

Biologically the baby is that of his or her mother - pregnancy and birth being a biologically process. Obviously.

IVF means the genetic material and the conception can come from someone else and takes place outside the woman's body, but to deny that the mother of the child is not biologically the mother is insanity.

Any woman who has been pregnant, has lost a pregnancy, has tried or is trying to get pregnant, cannot get pregnant or currently is pregnant will understand that biology is very key to having giving birth.

Through donor conception, surrogacy and adoption, fostering, guardianship etc there are also genetic, legal and social mothers (and fathers). Biologically there is only one mother.

This is very sad, but it is not really the point. Bank robbery is my only option for getting very rich, but that does not make it OK for me to rob a bank. Sometimes you just can't have what you want.

Surrogacy is my only option of having a family.

A genetic family perhaps, would adoption/fostering not be an option?

I'm very sorry for the loss you must be experiencing, it must be an awful thing to be faced with and one lots of women have to deal with.

Surely surrogacy is not the only option though and it's fraught with complex legal, moral and social problems. Even 'altruistic' surrogacy involves the exchange of money for 'expenses' for a 'service rendered'.

@justgettingthroughtheday so your surrogate is going to soak all the pregnancy costs, including maternity clothes, take a significant amount of time off work to recover at their own costs?

Bullshit. At least tell the truth.

I'm sorry for that but regardless I'm still against surrogacy and would be happy to see it banned. A biological child is not a right.

I understand your anger at your situation (and your post screams anger), but that doesn't give you the right to use a woman's body - my uterus is not a car for hire, and regardless of the reason for someone's own childlessness, renting a persons body and taking a piece of them away for your own use, is never ok. That principle stands regardless of whose egg is used or if money is exchanged or not. It doesn't belong to you, therefore you have no right to use it. End of discussion

@justgettingthroughtheday
Sorry you are getting so much grief. I hope you get your baby.

I think celebrities now using surrogates for vanity purposes is foul. However, for those very against taking the baby away from surrogate, how’s that different from adoption? The baby is also used to the woman’s voice, etc, but most people are not against adoption.
Obviously, it’s hard for outsiders to know when a vulnerable woman is being forced into surrogacy and when a woman is doing it willingly (either financial gain or the good of their heart, who knows). I know of a woman giving a kidney to her friend. I wouldn’t be willing to ever do that (besides for my children), same as I could never be a surrogate. Others would, though!

Surrogacy and adoption is not the same at all - for a starters, very few woman start a pregnancy with a view to giving their baby up for adoption. Surrogacy only happens under that premise. Adoption happens usually when the parental relationship breaks down, typically after lots of effort by the public authorities to keep the child with its mother

@Ansumpasty the difference with adoption is that it is acknowledged that this is the better of 2 problematic choices. To remove a child from birth indicates there is a serious risk and concern for that baby and early removal is the safer option. That doesn't mean there are no negative consequences because of the early separation from the mother.
Surrogacy creates a situation where you are putting a baby through that early separation and the longer term consequences, not because it is in the baby's best Interest, but because of the prospective parents desire for a child. Adoption puts the child first, Surrogacy puts the parents first.

@sexnotgenders I wouldn't be using someone!!! How fucking dare you!!!
A person I know has kindly offered to be my surrogate. She has had several previous healthy pregnancies and volunteered to do it. I will not be paying her. I will cover her expenses yes but she will not financially benefit from it.

For the love of god what is wrong with that???

@Ansumpasty I am angry. I'm angry at the sheer at utter incompetence of our NHS. I have been screaming for help for 15 years and now it is too late. They have screwed me over because I am a woman.

All I have ever wanted was to be a mum.

And no I don't want to adopt!

Surrogacy shouldn’t be an option available to anyone, no matter their circumstances.

Everyone will feel for you going through cancer and not being able to have children, but as sad as that is, it doesn’t make surrogacy ok.

There is zero evidence that babies born to surrogates and then live with their intended parents suffer any long term negative consequences. Zero!

The research that women on here love to bang on about is research done on babies forcibly removed from their birth mothers at some point during their first year and who never formed good attachments.

Sorry, but I stand by what I said. You are using someone, regardless of whose eggs you use or whether they get paid or not. I am sorry you are sick, and you have to have your own womb removed. That's awful. But that doesn't give you the right to use someone else's. You are free to shout at me all you like, but that changes nothing