Friends doing surrogacy: how to keep my feelings to myself

[AlexandraOrlov]

Before having my daughter, I had no issues with surrogacy but in the years that have passed, I’ve found it less and less comfortable. She screamed every time she was removed from my chest after birth, and for weeks her world was only right when she was on me, and no-one else. It was such an animal, instinctive bond, like we were still one unit. I cannot imagine what it would have meant for her if I’d have left then and she’d just had her father.

My friends (gay male couple) are starting their surrogacy journey. They’re in the US, it’s costly, but they both earn crazy money and they’ll have as many goes as it takes. Most contact with them has been over WhatsApp so I’ve been able to say all the “right” things but we’re visiting them in February and it’s going to be hard to sound supportive when I just feel really odd about this baby who is going to emerge knowing the smell of its “mother” and rooting for milk. Full context we are TTC again and it’s not going well, which is not helping.

I know all of this is probably not rational, and I truly believe that same sex couples are wonderful parents. I also don’t know how I feel about surrogacy when there’s a women or two women as the intended parents, I can’t unpack it that far.

How the bloody hell do I handle my mixed up feelings on this visit to not ruin a friendship I value deeply? Processing and debating it “live” with them doesn’t feel like a great idea but I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.

*similar situation (not idea where Sinae came from).

@beachcitygirl you may notice from the article shared below that there is a voice missing.

This could be to protect and respect the surrogate mother and her vulnerability, given the situation, but it could also be to give weight to the other voice in the article which, I'm sure you will agree, dominates the narrative and that this may have been done deliberately to support the political and legal stance of the MP who happens to be the MP tabling the bill for reform on surrogacy laws in NZ. I'm sure we can't guess why this individual has a particular interest in surrogacy laws...

So true, completely agree!

Just keep repeating the old feminist mantra "what a woman does with the contents of her womb is no one's business but hers".

As has already been said, no one is trying to stop women being pregnant. Just selling the resulting child to the commissioning person/people. Because in other circumstances, selling humans to other humans is considered wrong.

I totally agree with this.

I think this particular invocation of feminism is utterly disingenuous.

women’s bodily autonomy and right to choose is a totally different issue to selling or trading actual human beings.

Have as many pregnancies as you want, but growing babies to order and then trading them for money (even if branded as ‘expenses’) is nothing to do with a woman’s right to choose.

Even beyond that, as usual, ‘choice feminism’ arguments are used to distract from the enormous structural issues and actual reality of poor women who feel their only choice is to rent their bodies to more wealthy people as baby incubators.

We don’t let people sell their own organs, because that would cause considerably more societal harm than any potential good it might do for someone with enough money to buy someone else’s organ.

Where are the people shouting loudly, ‘it’s my kidney and I can sell it to whomever I like’?

Yet, the (international) baby trade is apparently just fine and dandy.

Not that the US domestic baby trade is ok (at all). It just that it’s so often even worse when the ‘gestation’ is outsourced abroad.

There has been one recent high profile case where I'm pretty sure the mother was coerced into surrogacy.

@Clymene

Which case are you referring to please?

Irish celebrity whose much younger childless and single sister carried a baby for him and his husband.

Ah, right. Thank you.

If I were you I’d tell them in advance that you’re ttc and it isn’t going to plan, so while you think they’ll be great parents, you’re not in a good place to talk about conception atm. If they’re close friends they’ll respect that.

@SomePosters a very good response. I am due to visit a friend who just had surrogacy twins. Personally I cannot see why other people can have a say in the relationship between two consenting adults - the surrogacy carrier and the parent. It will not disappear even if you make it illegal, like sex trade. Might as well legalise and regulate it.

On MN, I found that women are too harsh on other women. They openly bitch about another 50yo woman having a kid, providing a loving and nurturing environment, but they love BoJo who has fathered many kids, who is old and not responsible. They don't bash BoJo for having two kids who are young enough to be his grandchild.

To anyone who bash women who have a kid at 50, do you bash all the men too? Men don't carry children. This double standard bias in women is holding other women back.

they love BoJo who has fathered many kids

I think I've missed these posts. People fucking hate BoJo and his philandering irresponsibility.

Think I’ve missed those posts too, most of MN hate him

Lolol at the idea that mumsnetters love Boris Johnson. Most of them fucking hate him

@UnicornRidge , you said;
Personally I cannot see why other people can have a say in the relationship between two consenting adults - the surrogacy carrier and the parent. It will not disappear even if you make it illegal, like sex trade. Might as well legalise and regulate it.
This is such a ridiculous argument. It's not just a relationship between consenting adults, a baby is made, with rights. Do you not think anyone else has a responsibility towards that child to ensure their welfare? Tbh as soon as you said MNers love BoJo, you lost all credibility for anything you're trying to say.

"surrogacy carrier and the parent."

The what now? Birth mother is the correct term. "Surrogacy carrier" sounds like the Transgender activist terms of "flesh bag" (womb).

It will not disappear even if you make it illegal, like sex trade. Might as well legalise and regulate it.

Oh you might as well...governments, cultures/societies can't actually ban something which is illegal, we just have to accept all wrongs done to women as a mens rights movement and know our place.

Murder has also carried on existing despite being illegal. Should we legalise and regulate that?

@MrsJamin a baby is made and the intended parents are going to give the baby a home. What's your problem with giving someone else a chance to have a family? Two consenting adults. By giving other people more rights, your rights won't be taken away.
So much my body my choice feminism but people like you try to control what other people do with their body.

@OhHolyJesus it is the surrogate carrier. That person knowingly enter a contract with the intended parent. Legalising it gives the surrogate carrier more rights and protection.
The demand is always there. It is best to legalise it.

MN is full of "feminist" who impose their values on other people. Same argument as the anti choice supporter who want to interfere with what other women do with their body.

@UnicornRidge

"It" is it now? "Person" recognises this woman is human at least I suppose.

Some posters on this board recognise women are human and are more than a sum of their reproductive capabilities. Some...do not.

’choice’ feminism is so fucking disingenuous.

women, fight for the right to ‘choose’. So long as those ‘choices’ align with the interests of men in patriarchal society.

other choices are anti-feminist. 🙄

Neonates will always "choose" to be with their birth mother. What about their "choice"?

No one has the right to buy a baby. Gametes are not a baby. Donating the gametes that a mother grows into a baby does not give you the right to buy that baby from the mother.

It's always all about what adults want- if we focus on the child's best interests, surrogacy isn't ever it. And no "what about adoption"- adoption is all about centering the child's interests, and is the opposite of surrogacy. Surrogacy is buying and selling humans- it's abhorrent.

The Intended parents are the parents. They want to start a family. Why do you want to take the choice away from other people?
The Intended Parents are giving the child a good life. The argument that the child's welfare is compromised is flawed.
Please don't impose your moral compass on other people. I am 100% supportive of my friends who have children through surrogacy.