Worried about adult daughter and relationship with a trans woman

[PamelaPumpkin]

I'm putting this here because I don't fancy the bear pit that is AIBU and I consider it a feminist / gender issue but I just can't unpick in my mind what's bothering me the most. I'll start by saying I am not trans phobic but I am gender critical. I do not believe you can change your sex

Ok so my daughter is an adult, she's 24. She has her own home and a very good career. She's clever and sensible and mature - so I'm a bit shocked at what's happened this week

She's always dated men really, bar one woman a few years ago.

Anyway, 5 days ago she went on a date with a woman which she told me about. She showed me her Instagram photo and told me her name. She told me they'd been chatting for a few days and had met on Hinge and she was really looking forward to it. Have fun I said

It's now Sunday and this woman hasn't gone home yet. Well, once, to pick up clothes etc. my daughter is being unusually reticent about it all so I googled and found out this is a trans woman.

DD clearly knows this and I've not told her yet that I know.

So this is my problem ... actually, I can't work out what my issue is? I don't want to be transphobic but I'm struggling to get my head round this. And I'm deeply deeply worried about why this person has practically moved in. Why hasn't she gone home yet? Who the bloody hell is she?

So I don't know what to do.

She's an adult and happy. So ignore it?

Tell her I'm concerned? Say I feel it's a red flag to have a date and then that person not leave?

She knows my views on gender etc so she will be in no hurry to tell me that's for sure

Our relationship is excellent and we are close. I'm quite able to tell her what I think but I don't want to upset her particularly but I do want to try and understand what's going on here

Thoughts? I'm not trying to control her of course and I know she's a grown up. I just can't help feeling concerned and need to work out why exactly I'm so uncomfortable

She's clever and sensible and mature.

Nothing to worry about then.

I get what you mean about the trans thing OP, I’d be concerned too

I disagree with posters saying the gender aspect is irrelevant. It is entirely relevant. Clearly this transwoman is into females, so presumably was (is) straight when they 'were' a man. (I am gender critical but trying to stick to Mumsnet's gagging rules.)

That means that this person is probably the word we're not allowed to say on here, if you catch my drift. So yes, in your shoes, I would find this concerning, because that means your daughter is a participant in this person's sexual fetish, whether she realises it or not. I would absolutely want to know more about what's going on here. But I see that it's very difficult because your daughter is an adult.

If I were you I would make sure she knew I was here to support her, however she needed it. What you don't want to do is alienate her. But I'd be keeping a very close eye on the situation.

Take care OP.

And it all sounds like a trans version of love bombing.

Of course trans is relevant. Personality Disorders and MH issues are over represented in that demographic. Sorry but it's true and relationships which start like this show a lack of boundaries and awareness of healthy relationship behaviour. I'd be worried too.

Yes because clever, sensible and mature young women never stumble into poisonous relationships.

Why the intentional looking the other way?

The red flags are massive here. Nothing to do with the trans thing, although that is a factor. But this sounds like love bombing in the extreme and mirroring too. As for "it's a dream" IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT IS. As an example, knowing what's ahead of a 25 year old female dr training-wise, it's simply not possible that an air steward and a dr have the same career goals. Unless the air steward is going to learn to fly a plane and qualify as a pilot. I'm not knocking air stewards btw - it's a tough public-facing job that I couldn't do! But it's career trajectory and training demands are in no way comparable to those of doctors.

I would highly suspect this person is manipulative and a narcissist. The problem with that is that until your DD realises she's being manipulated, anything you say about this person that is anything other than positive, will be ignored. And that's the best outcome.

As for the trans issue, as someone above said, it's a factor because you cannot criticise this person about anything or DD will view it as you being anti-trans.

I'd be watching out too with the combination of all of that for your DD to becoming isolated. In particular from you.

You need to pop around and keep popping around and killing this person with kindness. You don't need to tell DD how wonderful it is they're together, but you can recognise she's very happy and you like to see that. Don't mention that they're trans at all. If your DD brings it up, don't say much more than "that's nice" or "ok". She'll be expecting a negative reaction and the new fling will likely be waiting for the negative reaction too. Don't give it to them.

It might involve rather a lot of gritting your teeth...

I could say a lot more, but I think you know it anyway and I don't want to be suspended!

The trans thing is irrelevant IMO. It's the intensity that would concern me, regardless of gender.

She told you she was going on a date. Maybe it was always the plan for the person to come round and stay a night or two. They may be enjoying each other’s company and decided to extend the time. It’s been 5 days not 5 weeks. I don’t see how 5 weeks is practically moving in and I don’t think sex has anything to do with it

Ok an update.

I popped over and she was on her own. I won't go into all the details but she - amazingly - did not know that this was a trans woman. She had no idea. So I'm going round to chat to her about my concerns and I say ' now I know why you maybe would fib to me about her being a trans woman' when she cuts in with ' what? She isn't!'

So we've had a couple of tricky hours. She messaged her 'date' who denied it all and then eventually admitted it - and this woman finished with my daughter over text, saying she felt 'violated' by the 'stalking involved' in discovering what is something she doesn't divulge to anyone. I found out with one click on google - it is the 3rd listing down that she's all over 'trans world girls' on Instagram!

It turns out there's been love bombing, silent treatment, a big talk about how she has a low sex drive and only wants to kiss and cuddle and all sorts - all in 5 bloody days!

So I've got a daughter here who feels very shocked, upset and stupid. She says she doesn't know who she's had in her house all week and she's ashamed she failed to spot this but the signs were all there. She says she's worried this could have been an abusive relationship as last night, when out at a Halloween do in the pub, this woman was grinding against some bloke and oh god - just all sorts. It's just insane

Male or female, this is a lesson to young people that even though they're clever and smart and switched on, they can be tricked and I can't say how relieved I am that this has done to a head. I've advised her to work on her boundaries and examine why she let them slip and she really wants to think about why this happened to her

Dunno what else to say really! Thank you for your words of advice and I'll name change back to my usual now!

@aweegc Yes love bombing. She also mirrored everything my daughter likes! Everything. Full of compliments and showering her with mini gifts like Prosecco and a key ring and sweets. Buying little toys for her kittens. On and on

@RedHelenB alas, I'll never be that parent! You can be concerned and caring without being overbearing. I care about my kids and whilst I still have breath in my body, I will bloody 'interfere' if I sense danger

OMD! What a drama! Glad she's ok, and you are still on good terms. Could have gone very differently.

Oh goodness. I'm glad that your DD is out of it. Sounds like this person did enough damage in 5 days!

OP have you answered the question in your own mind whether you'd feel as uneasy if this were a man? Or a woman?
Are you uneasy because it seems so serious and you are worried how the world will react? Does a part of you think: if you are bisexual, would your life not be easier if you fall hard for a man? I don;t think it is necessarily transphobic to think this.

DS's non binary girlfriend is bi and although he is about as far from alpha male as can be, I think her parents are delighted, not out of transphobia but because life is still a lot simpler for people in heterosexual long term relationships.

I agree - I would have done the same x

@picklemewalnuts honestly such a drama! And I've condensed a lot of it of course

She's back home now and she's ok. Having a bath, pizza and she says she feels she's come out of a fever dream!

All just concerning as she's normally very switched on. She truly believed this was a woman though and she's is very upset and angry that her choices were taken away from her. She's also questioning how she missed this - and I can't help with that one!

@BuryingAcorns yes there's certainly an element of all that in my thoughts.

I don't want to be transphobic, I don't want to be some old dinosaur and I really want to be open minded! I'm trying .. but I feel that we are all allowed out private thoughts and no, I'd rather she didn't date a trans woman

But she didn't know she was! And that's concerning in itself

@aweegc honestly it's just crazy. I was literally staring at my daughter as it dawned on me she really didn't know and going 'what are you DOING? Why have you got this stranger in your home?!'

And she just didn't know

This. Pronouns are rohypnol etc.

Sorry, just read the update.

Glad she's out of it. V worrying indeed.

She must feel so stupid, and it's a bit concerning that she dropped her guard so much for someone she had been chatting to online.

I think I'd be keeping a very close eye on her for a while, but glad it's resolved.

Sounds utterly grim. So glad you acted swiftly OP. What a lucky escape for your daughter.

It sounds like your daughter had a lucky escape from a potential abuser for sure. But if I found out my mum was Googling my dates and saying things like ‘I’d rather you didn’t date a trans person’ I’d be furious and probably never tell her anything again. Why does it matter if the person she dates is trans providing they’re a nice, honest, mentally sound person who makes her happy? Obviously this didn’t apply to this person but what if she meets another trans person who isn’t like that?

It's so deceptive to pretend you are one sex when you're actually another. WTF