Is opting out dating and having sex with men, as escape from patriarchy, silly?

[AllAloneInThisHouse]

Does it change anything?
Other than knowing that you won’t personally add to it?

OK fair point. I maybe didn't word that post the best but I was judt musing and posted it quickly. Men earn loads more over a lifetime but what these figures suggest is that women have the capability to earn at least as much but make other choices before hitting peak earning potential.

I saw a good debate about this between a feminist and a female economist and the latter references a study by The Economist that found that childless female execs continued to be promoted more aggressively than their male counterparts. I'd love to be able to find that video again.

Of course it doesn't solve the problem of women struggling to reenter the workplace, but it kind of throws doubt on the common view that men simply get preferential treatment as they seemingly doesn't for the first few decades or their working life.

Anyhow maybe this is a separate thread as it's getting quite far away from the OP about not dating men. That said, if the OP doesn't date men and stays childless she may well end up a high earner. 😂

Is opting out dating and having sex with men, as escape from patriarchy, silly?

Yes, because there is no escape from patriarchy, unless you emigrate to one of the few matriarchies.

Yes, even on this thread it would appear.

I'm happy being on my own now,choices all my own.
But would I be so happy looking back and that was all?
No. I've lived and loved had grand passions and a marriage that was 10 very happy years,followed by 4 ok and a deteriorating last 3.My ex had depression for the last 7 which meant I felt I couldn't go until I was forced.
But I'd kept my job,had money and fought to start anew.Ive been single and happy since.I may meet someone in the future though I'm not looking,but not to share a house but share time with,companionship and maybe love.
The trouble is most of us are hetero so shunning men completely isn't going to run.

But surely it’s better to be on your own, than being a man’s fool.

Of course it is.

The people on this thread who are arguing against women asserting a higher level of autonomy in their lives are...suspect.

It's an article which is fairly famous, gets posted from time to time and always generates a lot of debate.
I think it's more relevant that an ancient Dworkin article which may or may not have been taken out of context, because this one is pretty clear, and could well be the one being referred to.

Well yes, but kind of sexist of you to assume a woman is ‘a man’s fool’ if she has a male partner. I rather think my husband is my fool. He certainly is entertaining.

Oh, we’re we supposed to be fantasising a dream land?
Well, yes if you go to Oz, you will escape patriarchy and live in the Emerald city ruled by Queen Ozma.

Hey, I was trying to be lighthearted. Just reread and thought, oh shit, that could be read as sarcastic. Just wanted to clarify my intent there. 😅

@Discovereads yes I was referring to the previous sealioning and how even on this thread it's impossible to escape the patriarchy banging on at us and telling us we are wrong and the gender pay gap doesn't even exist.

Seems we're already living in that utopia - silly us with our experience of discrimination, sexual assault- we must have imagined it like the hysterical females we are!

@FeelingDecidedlyGiddy - spot on. Who benefits from that?

If I have a nice guy at home, don't I protest a little much if another woman says, no interested. Why would I care? Isn't that her business?

Yep and boycotting a bit of cock isn’t going to topple the patriarchy….

There's no unanimity about this. One feminist's thoughts aren't by default an agreed manifesto item for all feminists, or in this case all radical feminists.

Indeed, but shouldn't feminists be challenging sexist views in their ranks in the same way men are supposed to?

Most of the comments in that article seem to be agreeing that PIV sex is wrong.

Everything you said was worded brilliantly. I had a piv post of my own, but I don’t think it came out the way I originally intended.

I’m done with the notion that piv should be used for reproduction alone, if practiced at all on a female. There’s just no need for it. Our bodies weren’t made for that. A big clue is that every hetero female’s “first time” is painful. No other form of stimulation is painful, never (i.e. our clitoris, the main female source of pleasure) . A woman has to make her body not feel pain via piv over time.

I mean, this is just bonkers. Our bodies were made for reproduction. That's how evolution works.

absolutely, we have to train ourselves to work around the pain in order to kick it off, dissociate from it. Instead of seeing the very first pain as evidence that it’s not good, we are made to think that the pain isn’t normal and that we should get rid of the pain so we can continue PIV. It’s just that we’re doing it wrong, we haven’t put enough lubricant, or there’s something wrong with US (vaginismus, frigidity, hysteria, whatever disorder they invent) for not experiencing it as pleasurable.

If you tasted something and it tasted disgusting, why on earth would you force yourself to eat or drink it again and again until your taste buds are so numbed you no longer feel the disgust, and come to believe you enjoy it? This is pure torture. So is PIV.

This is pretty bonkers too tbh.

My ex, who is a sociopath, told me years ago that if women understood what men are REALLY doing to women when they put their penises into us, all women would be virgins and never let a man do it. He said that men assume we must be stupid for falling for this trick, and that the sexual revolution was the mockery of the century, because now women were giving to men for free what they used to have to marry us for.

Obviously there are some major errors in his misogynist analysis of the situation, but the essence of the sentiments do not contradict your analysis at all. Despite sociopaths being pathological liars, I think in this, he was telling the truth about men.

They. Know. Exactly what they are doing. This is another reason for the livid response to radfems who have figured it out.

And the third post. Literally three batshit bonkers replies in a row. I'd feel kinda embarrassed if I was associated with these kind of views tbh and would want to make it clear that they didn't speak for me.

@Galaktoboureko
Agree those posts on the article are batshit bonkers.

I think that part of the problem is a hangover from the days when it was better to have a man in your life than not, no matter how shitty that man is. Even though women earn their own money now and no longer 'need' a man in the same way, many still seem to hang on to absolute arseholes way longer than they should, often until said arsehole somehow finds a shiny new, younger woman and dumps her. I mean maybe it's slim pickings out there, but even the most vicous, evil, ugly son of a bitch on death row often have female fans clamouring to marry them. If women could just have more confidence in going it alone and only coupling up if they find a really good man, or leaving him sooner rather than later when they find he isn't the decent man he first seemed. There are some good men out there, but imo men as a class are more selfish than women, and are more inclined to put their own needs first. Even selfish women tend to put their dc first once they come along, but again ime men often don't. I agree with a pp though, if women en mass opted out of relationships with men then enslavement of females would be introduced, I have no doubt of it.

Yes but the thing is, the cling to a man issue is definitely enforced by other women for the most part. And that colours a huge amount of what is actually a good life, because consciously saying "I have enough and a man is not part of that" seems to really engage some women to socially enforce the opposite. And that is odd, because when you think about it, that woman says no is effectively taking herself out of the competition, you would assume that's okay with the remainder who are still looking for men.

I use "competition" advisedly - obviously it's not literally a race for cock...

There’s quite a jump between saying “Women who aren’t finding relationships with men worthwhile should opt out, embrace the single life and stop putting up with shit” and the OP’s position. Which seems to be that it’s virtually impossible for women to have fulfilling relationships with men. And that the many women who do think they are happy in their relationships are probably deluded (referencing the “not my Nigel” trope).
So I’m happy to celebrate women living their best life single, demanding higher standards of men and kicking bastards out. But I’m ok thanks, and I’m not getting divorced just to satisfy OP!