Page 12 | Amber Heard&Johnny Depp verdict

Miscfeminista · 2022-05-31T13:28:25+00:00

Continuation of previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552076-amber-heardjohnny-depp-trial?page=36&reply=117586863 Speculations on verdict, news related to it, insights into specifics of legal matters, opinions and impressions…let’s keep it going and see how verdict finds us >>>>>>>>>>

puffalo · 02/06/2022 10:56

IrisVersicolor · 02/06/2022 10:48

My view is that it is clear that Heard abused Depp. Given the evidence, I think this is beyond doubt. Whether Depp abused Heard is a more difficult question. The evidence is a lot less clear. My view is that there is enough evidence to show that many of the incidents claimed by Heard did not happen, but I can't say for sure that he never abused her.

On the basis of the evidence there is no question Depp abused Heard. How far her behaviour was reactive abuse and how much was her own personality is hard to say. Probably a mixture of both.

Heard overegged the pudding, and some of what she said didn’t appear to be true. However Depp also told barefaced lies but he got away with it.

Depp’s team was far better than Heard’s, not actually of the general calibre of U.K. barristers ime, but they did a good job of undermining Heard’s credibility. Not hard as she undermined her own. They were very lucky that Heard’s team wasn’t better, as Depp could have been skewered on his many lies.

The trailer park is by the by, Depp caused 75k worth of damage in Australia. He admitted trashing an apartment when he was with Moss causing 10k worth of damage. All his exes, even the ones who liked him said he smashed stuff up.

Please stop saying she “overegged the pudding”.

3 times is enough.

zabaglione1 · 02/06/2022 10:56

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 10:50

@zabaglione1 Don't misquote me and put words in my mouth. I won't engage with people who do that.

Er .. they were your words. But off you toddle

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 02/06/2022 10:57

The American defamation lawyer on Newsnight last night was interesting. She thought the decision was bizarre and needed to go to appeal. She said the jury ruled in favour of Depp over the accusation that he abused Heard, but they also ruled in favour of Heard over the accusation that she had made up the claim that she was abused. So she way lying and not lying at the same time She also said that the jury ruled that she defamed him with the wording of headline of article in question, but she didn't write that headline.

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 10:59

@zabaglione1

No one is saying it's impossible for men to ever be abused by women. That's literally just a MRA talking point.

The above is what I actually said.

so if a woman abuses a man it's just a talking point

This is what you lied and claimed I said.

I repeat: don't put words in my mouth.

prh47bridge · 02/06/2022 11:01

@IrisVersicolor Yes, Depp trashed an apartment while he was with Moss. I'm not sure that attributing all of the damage in Australia to Depp is correct, but he was certainly responsible for some of it. But the trailer park was not "by the by". It was a specific allegation made by Heard but denied by the trailer park manager. It therefore goes to her credibility as a witness.

TalkingCat · 02/06/2022 11:01

milveycrohn · 02/06/2022 07:32

The problem is that there was an actual recording of her admitting to hitting JD.
The evidence regarding JD was he was verbally abusive, and on drink and drug, and trashed kitchens. They were together for some years before marriage, which she claims were abusive, so why the marriage?
The article she wrote was after the divorce and her then award of (I think) 7 million, so was malicious in intent. (as found by the jury).
Both parties come across as unpleasant, but I sincerely hope that BOTH of them will be able to move on.

@milveycrohn There's also an actual recording of JD admitting to headbutting Heard. And he didn't deny he hit her when she brought it up on recordings.

waterSpider · 02/06/2022 11:05

Time will tell if they speak but I suspect the jury took their task very seriously and quite literally.

The one piece where they 'supported' AH mentioned details (e.g. a second phone call to 911) that were not supported in the trial.

At least some of the op-eds mentioned sexual violence, which may has implications that go beyond physical abuse, and for which there was much less evidence even presented.

For me, it's hard to get beyond telling an English trial under oath that $7m had been donated, when it had not, and well before any legal action against her. Indeed the judge mentions that donation in his judgement.

Bbq1 · 02/06/2022 11:05

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 10:45

@Bbq1 Depp abused AH.

Nothing you say changes that.

Nothing any aggressive MRA on Twitter or Reddit says changes the truth.

I didn't realise this was a Feminism board. I wouldn't have posted otherwise because every poster here repeating the truth that Heard was a lying abuser (as she was found to be in a court of law) is on a road to nowhere. The majority of posters on here will blindly "believe" Heard, despite the FACT that she was found overwhelmingly guilty and wove a web of lies, simply because she is a woman. Unbelievable . I will check where I'm posting next time.

TimeTravelSickness · 02/06/2022 11:06

FloydPepper · 02/06/2022 10:44

I’ll do that and pm you if that’s ok, it’s a tangent to this thread and I won’t de-rail any more

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Yes please. I would like to report them if mumsnet are leaving those to stand if they’ve been reported. And get an explanation as to why they are left to stand if they still don’t delete them. It’s not acceptable.

Innocenta · 02/06/2022 11:07

@Bbq1 Telling on yourself, there.

LuluBlakey1 · 02/06/2022 11:07

I think he was drunk, on drugs, aggressive, verbally and physically.
I think she was the same to a lesser degree. She also lied and was proven to have lied. She went too far and he decided he'd had enough and took her to court.
None of us know what happened but we decide what we believe. I 'm astonished anyone lives the way they lived- it's sordid and horrible, disrespectful to themselves and each other, lacking in any dignity or self-control, self-indulgent and plain weird. I can not imagine ever choosing it, however much money I had. It says a great deal about society and 'celeb' culture.
I'm sick of hearing about both of them. She has done victims of domestic violence no service with her lies and dramas and her own behaviour choices. I find him reprehensible and quite disgusting. My only hope is they both disappear and we hear nothing about them again. They are sordid trivialities really.

NotMyselfWithoutCoffee · 02/06/2022 11:12

@puffalo

I counted at least 4 times.

IrisVersicolor · 02/06/2022 11:16

DysonSphere · 02/06/2022 10:39

I’ve worked with da for a long time and I’ve met a lot of Ambers: unreliable, volatile, not massively likeable, but in an abusive situation nonetheless.

You've not met 'Ambers' Amber H is her own unique person. She is a person first, not a proto-type for all non-typical victims and it was she who was found guilty, not all the women you are assuming have the same traits as her.

On the contrary, of course Amber is an individual in a relationship with another individual and the dynamics and the nuance of theirs is specific to them. They are also in a particular situation, being famous, that is most unlike any other.

However, from a broader perspective, even as a distinctive personality, she falls under a type of unreliable, that is not uncommon.

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 02/06/2022 11:18

LuluBlakey1 · 02/06/2022 11:07

I think he was drunk, on drugs, aggressive, verbally and physically.
I think she was the same to a lesser degree. She also lied and was proven to have lied. She went too far and he decided he'd had enough and took her to court.
None of us know what happened but we decide what we believe. I 'm astonished anyone lives the way they lived- it's sordid and horrible, disrespectful to themselves and each other, lacking in any dignity or self-control, self-indulgent and plain weird. I can not imagine ever choosing it, however much money I had. It says a great deal about society and 'celeb' culture.
I'm sick of hearing about both of them. She has done victims of domestic violence no service with her lies and dramas and her own behaviour choices. I find him reprehensible and quite disgusting. My only hope is they both disappear and we hear nothing about them again. They are sordid trivialities really.

I completely agree. But she's appealing the decision so we have the sequel coming next year.

Blackbird2020 · 02/06/2022 11:18

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 02/06/2022 10:57

The American defamation lawyer on Newsnight last night was interesting. She thought the decision was bizarre and needed to go to appeal. She said the jury ruled in favour of Depp over the accusation that he abused Heard, but they also ruled in favour of Heard over the accusation that she had made up the claim that she was abused. So she way lying and not lying at the same time She also said that the jury ruled that she defamed him with the wording of headline of article in question, but she didn't write that headline.

@BringBackCoffeeCreams It’s not that she was lying and not lying at the same time, it’s just that Depp’s lawyer at that time did not have the evidence at that time to make the claim that her accusations were a ‘hoax’. I’m not sure when this lawyer made those allegations but they were made in the past, separate to this trial.

I believe the lawyer (Waldman?) had told a tabloid that AH had purposefully messed up the room to show Depp as the abuser. However the jury did not find evidence of this particular act, so found in favour of Heard on that count.

It’s all about evidence!

Blossomtoes · 02/06/2022 11:19

This reply has been deleted

Quotes deleted post

Here you go again. How you managed to extrapolate that I really have no idea. I love women of all ages having strong opinions and ethics. I really don’t like anyone who just makes stuff up.

SpidersAreShitheads · 02/06/2022 11:23

CooooCoooo · 02/06/2022 09:36

Amber definitely got caught up in her lies which the jury clearly noticed.

She lied about donating the money.
She lied about the damage at the trailer park.
She lied about getting a broken nose after the met gala.
She lied that he beat her multiple times with his rings on when just one punch would have left serious damage to her face such as cuts.
She lied about alerting TMZ.
She lied about leaking a video to TMZ.
She lied about Depp trying to push her sister down the stairs.
She lied about Kate Moss.
She lied about not taking cocaine.
She lied about editing pictures.
She lied about only ever hitting Depp once.
She lied about Depp raping her with a bottle. (The leaked audio the jury didn't hear confirms she lied about this. The audio confirms she threw the bottle that cut off his finger).
Even small, irrelevant lies like lying about the manager of the trailer park wearing a mesh top.

Her behaviour on the stand during her testimony was questionable too. I've never seen a person, who is recounting the times they nearly died or got their nose broken, go from face scrunched up in anguish while breathing fast and struggling to get words out to a stoney faced blank expression in the blink of an eye every time objection is called and then go back to scrunched up face and fast breathing when told to carry on. It's not normal. It looked like acting and I'm sure the jury noticed that too.

She also had plenty of slip ups such as "I was punching my head, um, I'm repeatedly punching my head" and "I didn't want him to find out from tmz who were alerted face slap" and "my bruise kit. No, not bruise kit, my theatrical make up kit which I called my bruise kit". There was another one where Camille asked her if she was ever scared taking pictures of Depp asleep/passed out and she responded with a snigger and said "why would I be scared?" - because this man apparently beats you until you're nearly dead, Amber!?

I think the trial has shown there's definitely more hoops a man has to jump through before he is believed to have been abused - I know, I'm sorry, I'm such a staunch feminist as well - but take that one recording where she says "I'm sorry that I didn't hit you across the face in a proper slap, but I was hitting you, it was not punching you. Babe, you're not punched. I don't know what the motion of my actual hand was, but you're fine, I did not hurt you, I did not punch you, I was hitting you". If a man had been recorded saying that to a women, they'd be no question that she was getting abused. None.

All of this and more. AH lied consistently and outrageously. I can’t understand how anyone could have watched this case and come out of the other side supporting her.

She’s a disgrace to abuse victims and has made it harder for women to be believed.

I’m not especially a Depp fan. Didn’t have any feelings either way about him before. But the accusations and victim-blaming thrown in his direction would NEVER have been levelled at a woman. He’s been held to a far higher standard and because he’s flawed he must therefore be an abuser too, even though there’s not a scrap of evidence against him that didn’t come out of Heard’s mouth. And as she’s proven to have lied I’m not willing to accept a single thing she says which isn’t corroborated. And there’s nothing.

I’m genuinely at a loss to see how anyone thinks she was the victim here.

I can only guess that some women have had such awful experiences themselves that they’re projecting and can’t see the plain facts or acknowledge Heard’s lies.

I just hope both can draw a line under it and move on. I also hope Depp tells her he doesn’t want the money. He deserves it but doesn’t need it and no good will come of destroying her financially.

Sunshinegirl82 · 02/06/2022 11:24

prh47bridge · 02/06/2022 10:33

It is always a surprise when a public figure wins a defamation case in the US given the different approach they take to such cases compared to the UK. The jury in the US had a lot more evidence to consider than the judge in the UK (I'll say more about that below) and it was clear that Depp's lawyers had moved the needle significantly in his favour, but the outcome was by no means guaranteed.

My view is that it is clear that Heard abused Depp. Given the evidence, I think this is beyond doubt. Whether Depp abused Heard is a more difficult question. The evidence is a lot less clear. My view is that there is enough evidence to show that many of the incidents claimed by Heard did not happen, but I can't say for sure that he never abused her.

We will probably hear from the jurors in the coming days, but I suspect the main thing that swung them towards Depp was the fact that so much of Heard's testimony was exposed as lies. They may also have considered the fact that, apart from her sister, Heard was supported entirely by paid witnesses (experts and people on her payroll), whereas Depp was supported by a number of witnesses who were not on his payroll and the attempts by Heard's lawyers to discredit them as Depp fans and/or liars failed. However, that is just me guessing. I will be interested to hear what the jurors say if they talk to the press.

It appears that Heard intends to appeal, so this may not be over yet.

Of course, in the UK it is still safe to call Depp a wifebeater based on the decision in the UK case. We will never know if the judge would have arrived at the same decision if he had seen all the evidence that was presented in the US. In the UK case, because Depp was suing NGN rather than Heard, she was not required to disclose evidence that was damaging to her case - evidence that was included in the US case. Also, in the UK each side presents its evidence and that is it, so Depp did not have any opportunity to rebut claims that Heard made in court that were not included in her witness statements. In the US, Depp was able to put forward rebuttal witnesses after Heard's case (and she was then able to attempt to rebut his rebuttal). This allowed, for example, Kate Moss to deny Heard's claim that she had been pushed down stairs by Depp, the trailer park manager to deny the claim that Depp had caused thousands of dollars worth of damage to the trailer, and the ex-TMZ employee to undermine her claims that neither she nor anyone on her team had leaked the kitchen video to TMZ or given TMZ any tip offs.

I agree, the complexities of disclosure and differing jurisdictions in the two cases make it very difficult to make direct comparisons in my view.

Most people I have spoken to about this case in real life have felt that JD would definitely win (principally because they believed JD had established that AH lied) but I have been cautioning throughout that his case was actually very difficult to win due to the high bar required to establish defamation in the U.S. and I wouldn't have been surprised at all if he had lost.

whatever1980 · 02/06/2022 11:24

So Depp is a wife beater in the UK but not in the USA according to the courts

TalkingCat · 02/06/2022 11:24

Bbq1 · 02/06/2022 10:44

Johnny's speech was very moving.

He's not an abuser.
He was found not guilty.
Ah was found to be a compulsive liar and guilty of abuse.

Don't be taken in by abusers - like Amber Heard.

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@Bbq1 He was found guilty on 12 of 14 counts in the UK.

This merely defamation. He wasn't found guilty or not guilty. This wasn't that type of case, you are ill-informed.

He is by his own texts, own words, and by a court of law, guilty of domestic abuse. Don't be so brainwashed that you are taken in by him.

Autumndays123 · 02/06/2022 11:25

ldontWanna · 02/06/2022 10:54

Johnny's speech was very moving.

He's not an abuser.
He was found not guilty.
Ah was found to be a compulsive liar and guilty of abuse.*

That is not what the trial was about. It wasn't even a criminal case, so JD wasn't found "not guilty" of anything.

You either misunderstood the whole thing or are wilfully ignorant to suit your narrative.
You're also forgetting that AH also won one one count of defamation on his side.

I'm afraid you have a very basic grasp of what the verdict of the trial was and what it means. I would suggest reading up on it because you will see how and why the verdict was won and why Amber winning one count means absolutely nothing

MichelleScarn · 02/06/2022 11:25

Blossomtoes · 02/06/2022 11:19

Here you go again. How you managed to extrapolate that I really have no idea. I love women of all ages having strong opinions and ethics. I really don’t like anyone who just makes stuff up.

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@Innocenta what if these 'young women' don't fully agree with what you and what you decide are the correct opinions? You're quite against @Blossomtoes having a differing opinion to you.

IrisVersicolor · 02/06/2022 11:25

prh47bridge · 02/06/2022 11:01

@IrisVersicolor Yes, Depp trashed an apartment while he was with Moss. I'm not sure that attributing all of the damage in Australia to Depp is correct, but he was certainly responsible for some of it. But the trailer park was not "by the by". It was a specific allegation made by Heard but denied by the trailer park manager. It therefore goes to her credibility as a witness.

I’m not saying it didn’t damage her credibility, it did it’s job in the trial. But there is strong evidence, not presented at trial, that Depp has a history of trashing places, including from his ex gfs, so it’s by the by that he didn’t trash that particular place.

Autumndays123 · 02/06/2022 11:26

TalkingCat · 02/06/2022 11:24

@Bbq1 He was found guilty on 12 of 14 counts in the UK.

This merely defamation. He wasn't found guilty or not guilty. This wasn't that type of case, you are ill-informed.

He is by his own texts, own words, and by a court of law, guilty of domestic abuse. Don't be so brainwashed that you are taken in by him.

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🤦🏻‍♀️ please stop embarrassing yourself and read the full verdict of the trial

IrisVersicolor · 02/06/2022 11:31

@puffalo

Please stop saying she “overegged the pudding”

I could tell you to stop talking complete cobblers in your posts on the case, but you are no more likely to attend to my request than I am to yours.