Why do lots of black women still feel that feminism is nit for them?

[SpringHasSprungYay]

Isn't it sad that in this day & age, so many black women still feel that feminism is a white woman's thing.
How can we make things better?

Sadly most racists/bigots etc just don’t have the intelligence to understand why they are being racist/bigoted.

But it also seems to me that it’s only their privileged point of view that is seen as the correct one. Similar to some of the sneering white women comments on this thread and the Black Mumsnetters section, the same denials come up on threads relating to disabilities. If the privileged group says they don’t mean to be racist/bigoted, then that seems to trump the minority group saying “but actually I find your views offensive”.

@oliviastwisted yes there is still so much to do.

One big problem is it's clearly hard to have a conversation about.

But does that mean we should give up?

@Scautish

Sadly most racists/bigots etc just don’t have the intelligence to understand why they are being racist/bigoted.

But it also seems to me that it’s only their privileged point of view that is seen as the correct one. Similar to some of the sneering white women comments on this thread and the Black Mumsnetters section, the same denials come up on threads relating to disabilities. If the privileged group says they don’t mean to be racist/bigoted, then that seems to trump the minority group saying “but actually I find your views offensive”.

Yup.

The poster …was previously banned. They have been shown the door again apparently.

I wonder if this thread, like most threads on this topic that are typically introduced by new posters or those with a history of bad faith, was always for the PBP, harvesters of screenshots for other platforms, and those who insist on introducing a US lens onto UK culture.

It's interesting to note that this topic is on S&G rather than Feminism Chat where it might attract the more general audience that the OP would wish to engage if this were of topic of concern to the OP

@LittleRedRidingHood187

Why don't you post in the black mum's net section but then if you're white they'll kick off

It's an open forum but for some reason they think only black women are allowed to view that section

Because I'm asking all women.

What is clear is that these cliches are often perpetrated by women against women. Asian women are seen as subservient to their husbands, black women are seen as aggressive and white women are labelled Karen if their views don’t match your own.

Before we deal with any anti-feminist narrative from the TRA and their supporters or just the overall misogyny we experience in society, maybe we should try and sort our own house first, we can only make a difference if we stand united, and at the moment there are so many things in our way.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

The poster …was previously banned. They have been shown the door again apparently.

I wonder if this thread, like most threads on this topic that are typically introduced by new posters or those with a history of bad faith, was always for the PBP, harvesters of screenshots for other platforms, and those who insist on introducing a US lens onto UK culture.

It's interesting to note that this topic is on S&G rather than Feminism Chat where it might attract the more general audience that the OP would wish to engage if this were of topic of concern to the OP

I've been on here for 12 years thanks.

@Eightiesfan

What is clear is that these cliches are often perpetrated by women against women. Asian women are seen as subservient to their husbands, black women are seen as aggressive and white women are labelled Karen if their views don’t match your own.

Before we deal with any anti-feminist narrative from the TRA and their supporters or just the overall misogyny we experience in society, maybe we should try and sort our own house first, we can only make a difference if we stand united, and at the moment there are so many things in our way.

This. 100% 👏

It's very difficult to demonstrate listening on a forum that communicates in writing. I honestly do read fully any comment that I respond to. If I see what I personally think is a misrepresentation of my own views, I believe I have the right to clarify.

I accept that I have no place on the BMN board and I won't post there again. But on other areas of the site, I will listen, and I will contribute if I think my views are relevant.

I've been on here for 12 years thanks.

With a negligible history on FWR which is interesting. And without enough familiarity to understand the difference between S&G and Chat which speaks volumes…

It’s stupid and intolerant to assume privileged white women are racist and to be treated with contempt and suspicion at all times.

The reverse hypocrisy and treatment of other women different to us is unreal.

Because I'm asking all women.

But ... white women can't answer on behalf of black or brown or Asian women. At least, I wouldn't presume to. I also wouldn't post on/visit the BMN board, because I understand it's for other MNers and I'm happy to respect other people's spaces.

By the same token, anyone who disagrees with discussions of 'gender' or 'sex' has the 'Feminist Chat' board - link at the top of the page - where they can discuss all the feminist topics that aren't about sex/gender.

@Eightiesfan

What is clear is that these cliches are often perpetrated by women against women. Asian women are seen as subservient to their husbands, black women are seen as aggressive and white women are labelled Karen if their views don’t match your own.

Before we deal with any anti-feminist narrative from the TRA and their supporters or just the overall misogyny we experience in society, maybe we should try and sort our own house first, we can only make a difference if we stand united, and at the moment there are so many things in our way.

Absolutely.

Seriously this thread has pissed me off.

Some White women are still not listening to what black women have to say...

This has actually again turned into a debate that completely ignores the feelings of women 🤨

You have again silenced them into submission...

This was about race.
Now what is it about?
Trans debate, womens rights? What is deemed sexist, what isn't...
Black women have again been ignored...it needs to stop..
Just listened.

It's very difficult to demonstrate listening on a forum that communicates in writing. I honestly do read fully any comment that I respond to. If I see what I personally think is a misrepresentation of my own views, I believe I have the right to clarify.

I accept that I have no place on the BMN board and I won't post there again. But on other areas of the site, I will listen, and I will contribute if I think my views are relevant.

^
This absolutely I would love to have a way to convey to women in BMN that I am trying to listen but I won’t be commenting there again either because it is a safe space and it is not appropriate for me to do so. But I do want to learn, I don’t want to close myself off for other people’s struggles because I want the world to keep getting better for all people.

@oliviastwisted

It's very difficult to demonstrate listening on a forum that communicates in writing. I honestly do read fully any comment that I respond to. If I see what I personally think is a misrepresentation of my own views, I believe I have the right to clarify.

I accept that I have no place on the BMN board and I won't post there again. But on other areas of the site, I will listen, and I will contribute if I think my views are relevant.

^
This absolutely I would love to have a way to convey to women in BMN that I am trying to listen but I won’t be commenting there again either because it is a safe space and it is not appropriate for me to do so. But I do want to learn, I don’t want to close myself off for other people’s struggles because I want the world to keep getting better for all people.

How about we just post

"listening 🖤"

It's more a hobby than a movement

This is grossly offensive when you're discussing women who have lost their jobs, had work opportunities denied, contracts severed. Women who have had their education and studying impacted. Others who have been arrested, locked in cells away from their children because of cynically driven complaints pandered to by ideologically captured police officers.

Many others libelled and slandered repeatedly, some high profile, but scores of others not so.

And this is before you consider the threats, harassment and violence many have received on-line and in person.

To dismiss this as 'a hobby' is crass and inflammatory rubbish.

@oliviastwisted

There’s a huge difference between women that want to learn, be corrected etc without being accused, shouted down, treated with contempt. Hopefully they will be able to do so at some point because it’s important to join together.

@DomesticatedZombie

Because I'm asking all women.

But ... white women can't answer on behalf of black or brown or Asian women. At least, I wouldn't presume to. I also wouldn't post on/visit the BMN board, because I understand it's for other MNers and I'm happy to respect other people's spaces.

By the same token, anyone who disagrees with discussions of 'gender' or 'sex' has the 'Feminist Chat' board - link at the top of the page - where they can discuss all the feminist topics that aren't about sex/gender.

I'm not posting on the BMN board.

Feminism is for all women IMO. Hence I am asking all women.

@Fluffymule

It's more a hobby than a movement

This is grossly offensive when you're discussing women who have lost their jobs, had work opportunities denied, contracts severed. Women who have had their education and studying impacted. Others who have been arrested, locked in cells away from their children because of cynically driven complaints pandered to by ideologically captured police officers.

Many others libelled and slandered repeatedly, some high profile, but scores of others not so.

And this is before you consider the threats, harassment and violence many have received on-line and in person.

To dismiss this as 'a hobby' is crass and inflammatory rubbish.

Apparently this is all fine because they’re “middle classes white women” with a hobby.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

I've been on here for 12 years thanks.

With a negligible history on FWR which is interesting. And without enough familiarity to understand the difference between S&G and Chat which speaks volumes…

Oh bore off. Have you heard of namechanging?

To dismiss this as 'a hobby' is crass and inflammatory rubbish.

this whole thread is inflammatory.

@Tillsforthrills

It’s stupid and intolerant to assume privileged white women are racist and to be treated with contempt and suspicion at all times.

The reverse hypocrisy and treatment of other women different to us is unreal.

I think you misunderstand what is meant by white privilege. I am in no way referring to money or status. If you are white in this society you are born with privileges that people from other ethnic groups do not have, it is that simple. It is your skin colour that gives you this ‘privilege’. It has nothing at all to do with accusing anyone of being racist, your response speaks volumes.

I don’t think it’s the case that all black women think that. Alison Bailey for example is a black feminist leader. Lots of white women don’t find feminism is for them too (is there any evidence whether the proportion is more or less than black or Asian women?).

I posted on another thread when one poster said that feminism had “never done anything for black and minority ethnic women”. As a minority ethnic woman of course that’s not true! Equal pay, right to vote, maternity provision, etc etc etc

Feminism should be for all women though and should be a broad church to include us all. But ultimately not every woman will agree with feminism (many women campaigned against the vote for example) and not all women are ever going to agree about anything! We are 50% of the population after all.

@LittleRedRidingHood187

Why don't you post in the black mum's net section but then if you're white they'll kick off

It's an open forum but for some reason they think only black women are allowed to view that section

Why so hostile to the notion that black women asked for and were given (at some personal cost to PatricksRum) their own space?

It is perfectly plain that posters may ask black women for their thoughts and opinions, in chat, on these boards, without intruding into BMN and speaking over the posters there.