Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why do lots of black women still feel that feminism is nit for them?

249 replies

SpringHasSprungYay · 17/04/2022 07:58

Isn't it sad that in this day & age, so many black women still feel that feminism is a white woman's thing.
How can we make things better?

OP posts:
Blogblogblogblog · 17/04/2022 11:24

Soontobe60 Regarding public toilets, equality would mean everyone having access to mixed sex toilets. Which would mean all public toilets would need to be completely self contained single use rooms like you have on aeroplanes or trains. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.
I do and I think a lot of others would too. It’s got a lot to do with safety and then hygiene.

Villagewaspbyke · 17/04/2022 11:26

Also you have to be aware that this is an Internet board. Someone claiming to be a black woman may well be a white male mens right activist. I don’t think you need to treat them as if they represent a whole group of people. They may represent one or none.

MorrisZapp · 17/04/2022 11:27

When I was a kid, I would sometimes come downstairs to find a strange woman sleeping on our sofa. This was because my mum (then in her twenties) was instrumental in setting up the local Womans Aid. Without benefit of the Internet and in the era of police refusing to come out for 'domestics' my mum and others like her used notice boards, land lines and living room meetings to organise and provide safety for what was then called 'battered women'.

One lady had been locked in a wardrobe when her husband was at work. Another was assaulted with a golf club. The police didn't care and women had to help each other with whatever paltry resources were available to them ie not much, and they all had their own families to worry about.

Anyone calling this a hobby because the women involved were all white should acquaint themselves with the history of grassroots campaigning, what it cost those campaigners and the institutional change it led to that today's lib fems think was given to us as a Christmas present.

Tillsforthrills · 17/04/2022 11:27

@Eightiesfan

I’m sorry you’ve lost me there. My post wasn’t directed at you, however my opinion is unchanged

LittleWhingingWoman · 17/04/2022 11:28

Ok this is just my perspective.

I'm not white. I have two family members who are now dead because of violent racist attacks. I've suffered appalling racism and so does my daughter at school now because she is mixed race.

But I don't see all white women as the problem just like I don't see all white people as the problem. For me, I was accepted amongst a lot of friends with Irish families at a time in UK history when as a young girl in the 80's I would be harassed on the street for walking with a white boyfriend. What I found with Irish people in particular in London is that there was a keen recognition that racism had affected groups of people who weren't just black. "No Blacks, No Irish, No dogs etc"

I was beaten in the street by a Muslim man who said I was a whore for wearing a short skirt. I was dragged into an alleyway by a black man and his mate who put their hands up my skirt. A group of black men constantly cat called me and made me feel unsafe whilst I had my baby with me. I was raped by a white man who called me a black bitch to his friends after.

For me, misogyny is far worse than racism. I'm not interested in pointing my finger at white people for all the issues I have faced. It was men who perpetrated most of the violent or sexual abuse in my life. Sure some white women have been snide and bitchy to me over the years. But walking home from school it was a black girl who used to laugh at me and bully me for example. At the same time my best friend was a different black girl. Bullying crosses cultures and colours. It literally isn't black and white and it's simplistic and tribal to point fingers only at white women for doing it or at black women for receiving it etc. There is also a perception amongst black women I know that only they get the racism from whites. I have to sometimes remind them that I have dead family members - that all shades of brown receive racism.

When I'm walking home late at night I'm not worried about racist white women calling me names. That never happens. The racism I get from those kinds of women is more subtle and snide for sure but it's not a physical threat to my body.

However I do get followed by men of all colours. And I've been assaulted by men of all colours. To me male violence towards women and girls is my priority because by rights if they men who had assaulted me had their way I wouldn't be here.

Just my perspective as I said before. I don't find anyone on this board racist - I've seen that the Black Mumsnetters board has been featuring recently so had a look to see what it was like. It's not for me.

If I was a white Mumsnetter I would leave it well alone.

Accusations of racism to this group here suit the transactivist narrative. It also suits the white people who have hijacked BLM.

Knittingchamp · 17/04/2022 11:30

@SpringHasSprungYay

Isn't it sad that in this day & age, so many black women still feel that feminism is a white woman's thing. How can we make things better?
Where to begin? The world for a black woman is completely different from that of a white woman, and the concept of feminism is still heavily driven by an unconscious white liberalism. White people have white privilege, a black woman does not. Intersectionality is a powerful and complex concept that lots of people don't, when it comes to it, really care about.

As a white woman I don't have to cope with in your face sneering racism (or the fear of it) on a daily basis. As a black woman that would be my reality.

HRTQueen · 17/04/2022 11:31

LittleRedRidingHood187
Why don't you post in the black mum's net section but then if you're white they'll kick off

It's an open forum but for some reason they think only black women are allowed to view that section

Post like the above make me cringe. It remains a me of those that cry black or Asian people can use racist terms but we can’t. What does it matter to you if there is a space where black women can discuss issues that impact their lives. Why do you feel the need to add you opinion on there. If there was a board for Asian women would that be an issue too or are Asian women to be viewed with more sympathy

SpringHasSprungYay · 17/04/2022 11:32

@HRTQueen

LittleRedRidingHood187 Why don't you post in the black mum's net section but then if you're white they'll kick off

It's an open forum but for some reason they think only black women are allowed to view that section

Post like the above make me cringe. It remains a me of those that cry black or Asian people can use racist terms but we can’t. What does it matter to you if there is a space where black women can discuss issues that impact their lives. Why do you feel the need to add you opinion on there. If there was a board for Asian women would that be an issue too or are Asian women to be viewed with more sympathy

Exactly. It's a bit like saying women shouldn't be able to have their own spaces.
OP posts:
LangClegsInSpace · 17/04/2022 11:33

@user1471504747

I mean in MN terms, I think the GC feminism has drawn in a lot of conservative posters who cross the line, as well as genuine feminists interested in sex based rights.

The Central Park Karen threads are a good example of feminists being completely blind to race issues and so focussed on seeing women as the victims they were unable to see the racial power imbalance which in that situation was the main player, not a sex power imbalance.

There’s also many threads of GC feminists saying they’ll vote conservative because of GC issues, and saying they’re the only party truly supporting women. That’s great if you’re privileged but for those on or close to the poverty line (which is more likely to be BAME because of various socio economic factors) then it’s hard to claim the Conservative party are really what women need. Pair that with the thread complimenting Boris Johnson (who is well known for a variety of racist comments) and also a number of high profile feminist posters that have in the past whitesplained and spewed racist hatred on BM threads, it’s not hard to see why black mumsnetters do not identify with MN feminism.

Feminism outside of MN is a whole bother ball park of course

This is fair.

In many ways this is now a GC topic rather than a feminist topic.

That's the way MNHQ have engineered it, so keen are they to host 'The Debate'.

It's worth pointing out that we are not allowed to tell posters here that they are not welcome, whether they are anti-feminist, conservative, mra, tra ... It would be a mistake to think that every post here is from a feminist.

Tillsforthrills · 17/04/2022 11:33

@LittleWhingingWoman

What an eye opening post, and one that starkly makes the case for women of all classes and races join together instead of focusing on our differences.

On the BMN section I was told I wasn’t black in a very condescending manner. It’s great for things like discussion around hair products, food etc and mostly the posters there are supportive. There are a few though that make it very unwelcome.

Knittingchamp · 17/04/2022 11:35

@Rightsraptor

I've never heard the word 'uppity' used in the UK about black people fighting for their rights. I did used to hear it used about me, white as I am, by various family members when I passed the 11 plus all those years ago.
@Rightsraptor it has a horrific history as a word used as a weapon from the era of the slave trade. Anyone using it in the context of racism knows EXACTLY what they are saying.
amatsip · 17/04/2022 11:36

As a woman of colour I’m more concerned about race issues than gender. This attachment sums up my despair at how shit life is for people of colour.

I am born and live in a country where people of my colour are not wanted. That messes your head up big time.

Why do lots of black women still feel that feminism is nit for them?
DomesticatedZombie · 17/04/2022 11:36

Flowers LittleWhingingWoman.

Tillsforthrills · 17/04/2022 11:36

@HRTQueen.

Really don’t agree with you there, absolutely black women deserve a protected space to discuss issues relevant to our lives.

I don’t think that’s an excuse to be rude to non blank women who venture there in good faith.

LittleWhingingWoman · 17/04/2022 11:41

The TRA's are going to be all over this as evidence that white women are Karens and should die in grease fires despite most of the TRA's being white co-opting movements that stop them from being perceived as white racists themselves.

LittleWhingingWoman · 17/04/2022 11:42

@LittleWhingingWoman

The TRA's are going to be all over this as evidence that white women are Karens and should die in grease fires despite most of the TRA's being white co-opting movements that stop them from being perceived as white racists themselves.
Autocorrected TRAs to TRA's (in case of any TRA spelling fanatics reading)
namechangeranonymouse · 17/04/2022 11:42

Maybe their main aim is to fight racism and see that as separate from feminism?

ToiletPoster2 · 17/04/2022 11:42

@LittleRedRidingHood187

Why don't you post in the black mum's net section but then if you're white they'll kick off

It's an open forum but for some reason they think only black women are allowed to view that section

I don't think it's ever about simply posting in that section. When black women are talking about their experiences, white women will often come into the topic and tell black women that they can't possibly have had that experience because they, as a white woman, have not experienced it.
LittleWhingingWoman · 17/04/2022 11:44

Was going to add Black Mumsnetters should be free to have their spaces away from white people to talk. Just as a man changes the conversation amongst women when he is their space, so do white people for other races. There are different conversations that happen when white people aren't there.

SpringHasSprungYay · 17/04/2022 11:45

@LittleWhingingWoman sorry to hear about all the abuse you have experienced and thank you for sharing here 🖤

OP posts:
Tillsforthrills · 17/04/2022 11:45

@LittleWhingingWoman

The TRA's are going to be all over this as evidence that white women are Karens and should die in grease fires despite most of the TRA's being white co-opting movements that stop them from being perceived as white racists themselves.
Sadly, this inadvertently joins TRA’s with women who are fighting racism ahead of feminism.
SpringHasSprungYay · 17/04/2022 11:46

@namechangeranonymouse

Maybe their main aim is to fight racism and see that as separate from feminism?
Yes. But all women will still experience sexism.
OP posts:
BluKorner · 17/04/2022 11:47

The responses on this thread say it all. It again tells us we’re wrong for the way we feel. That we’re the ones causing the problems. OP started this thread, I presume in good faith, and she’s accused of stirring.

It’s only stirring if the PPs allow it to be, which, they duly are.

LittleWhingingWoman · 17/04/2022 11:47

What women of all colours and ages will start to see, what lesbians have already see and what gay men are waking up to - is that white middle class Transwomen - are the ones whose needs will trump everyone.

Black woman in the workplace vs white TW - who will get the promotion now?
I think we can all guess.

Tillsforthrills · 17/04/2022 11:48

@namechangeranonymouse

Maybe their main aim is to fight racism and see that as separate from feminism?
Yes, and it is very sad that black women contend heavily with both.