Can you be feminist if you're in a traditional female role?

[gandalf456]

Background - I have 2 teenagers, I am a carer for my elderly mum and I work in an unskilled, low paid job (almost) part time - i.e 5 days a week but 28 hour shift work wrapped around my responsibilities. My husband works 12 hour days. I do most of the work re home and family.

My issue is that I have been on the receiving end of some disparaging comments in the past - ironically, other women seem to be the worst. It's mostly related to the fact that I don't have a career in spite of having had a good education.

My stance is that I don’t want to do the juggle. I feel stretched to the limit as it is. The idea of having a highly responsible job on top feels too much.

However, I do value myself and what I do. I might not have high status or money. I work hard in the job I have and have good relationships with mý children and mum.

There is more to me as a woman and a person than this, right? Do I have to have a career to be respected by other women? I don't see myself as selling out. I'm just doing what works for me

Yes of course you can. Feminism is about having the freedom to choose.

For me, a woman doing what she chooses is feminism. Years ago, and in some cases even now, women don’t get a choice.

I agree with @Justkeeppedaling and @Babdoc. It is great for the OP's husband to fund her so she can look after her elderly mother. What about his elderly parents whilst he has to work long hours to ensure his mother in law is cared for?
So many older women want to be financially supported so they can care for elderly parents as long as it is her elderly parents that she is caring for.
I have never known a a SAH wife look after his parents. What's the phrase so popular on MN, 'Not my circus, not my monkeys'. Some women want funding to do their own thing and look after their own.
So often it sounds good that these SAH women are doing so much but I do wonder how their husbands feel about being the main breadwinners.
It is different when their children are young but when their children have left home, everyone would like to be financially supported so they can enjoy a more leisurely pace of life.
In my opinion it is wrong to try and justify not contributing financially unless both sides benefit. It is also harking back fifty years, although my mother worked full time until 65 and part time until 70. It certainly doesn't do the feminist cause any good.

@OvaHere

Yes you can. I don't think caring roles, whether for children, the elderly or the infirm are inherently un-feminist. The un-feminist bit is the value (or lack there of) that society projects onto the people, mostly women, who do these jobs.

A lot of feminist theory is great but in the real world life comes at you fast. Decisions have to be made to benefit the whole family and we have to work with the circumstances we have.

In an ideal world all girls would grasp the tenets of feminism from about age 12 onwards and make great decisions there on in that mean we can live lives full of freedom and choice.

That's just not how it is though. I was in my 30s before I really started to unpick things with a feminist mindset and by that time already much of my life looked un-feminist from an outside perspective. That's not reason enough to just give up and abandon any feminist principles - even small steps can make a difference on an individual level.

I suppose what I'm saying is that if your circumstances at the minute are what works best for you then keep doing it. If it's not then try to change it, even in small ways. It's all each of us can do bar a radical overhaul of the world we live in.

This is such a good post, especially this -

That's just not how it is though. I was in my 30s before I really started to unpick things with a feminist mindset and by that time already much of my life looked un-feminist from an outside perspective. That's not reason enough to just give up and abandon any feminist principles - even small steps can make a difference on an individual level.

@Comedycook says
And yet I bet no man has ever said "I wouldn't feel right working full time and increasing my earnings whilst my wife looks after the kids"
But the OP has teenage children. The husband is expected to work hard and increase his earnings so the OP can be funded whilst she cares for her mother. I bet few women on MN would agree to shoulder all the financial burden so that their husband can care for his elderly mother. Can you imagine the outrage and cries of 'Mummy's boy'

The thing about having teenagers is that whilst in so many ways they are independent and capable of looking after themselves and helping around the house, I have certainly found that actually they seem to need you around far more when they are that age.

Newborns and toddlers have nothing on parenting a teen.

I would love to think that there are feminists on here that proudly support their husbands not working so that he can care for his elderly parents. Somehow, I think that is a stretch too far for many MN feminists.

Newborns and toddlers have nothing on parenting a teen

I agree. I feel like I run round after my kids more now than when they were younger.

[quote Twicklette]@Comedycook says
And yet I bet no man has ever said "I wouldn't feel right working full time and increasing my earnings whilst my wife looks after the kids"
But the OP has teenage children. The husband is expected to work hard and increase his earnings so the OP can be funded whilst she cares for her mother. I bet few women on MN would agree to shoulder all the financial burden so that their husband can care for his elderly mother. Can you imagine the outrage and cries of 'Mummy's boy'[/quote]
I'm just making the general point that women shouldn't feel guilty for relying on their husband financially... because I can assure you men do not feel guilty when their wife does more household/childcare/caring tasks.

I would agree @Comedycook, if any woman on MN supported her husband not working so he might take on caring responsibilities for his parents, but it just doesn't happen. You must have read so many times on here that a man who financially depends on his wife is called a cock lodger
I totally understand a woman wanting to care for her young children but women who don't work once their children are at secondary school or university, often claim that they have caring responsibilities but those caring responsibilities are very much on her terms.
It seems those who maintain caring to be a feminist activity only apply if a woman is caring for her elderly relatives. So often, men are expected to shoulder the financial burden of caring for his in laws. It just doesn't happen the other way around.
I could accept the premise of caring for the old being an example of feminism if it also allowed men to take on the role of not working to care for his elderly parents. However, as we see all the time on MN, no woman would take on a caring role if she didn't benefit in some way. Feminism is about equality and parity for men as well women.
It is not about a man supporting his wife so she can care for her parents. This has always happened. It is nothing to do with feminism.

You must have read so many times on here that a man who financially depends on his wife is called a cock lodger

It's invariably because he doesn't lift a finger at home and not only expects to be financially supported but also expects her to be a fifties style housewife.

But then a woman who wants to be financially supported whilst caring for her elderly parents is a tale as old as time, certainly 1950s but also plenty of historical examples of women marrying to get financial security for her existing family.( Look at the Bible)
Just as men not taking their part in caring for their family is regarded as wrong by feminists so women expecting financial provision to care for their elderly relatives is not an example of feminism.
Seriously @Comedycook, how many women on here or in real life do you know who work to financially provide for their husbands so that the husbands can take on a caring role with regard to his elderly parents?
I would love to see equality in caring responsibilities but men are generally expected to work and care for their elderly relatives.
Many women have little desire to financially provide for their in laws. Haven't you read the threads on MN?

I find being put into traditionally female roles awakens the feminist in a woman.

Caring responsibilities, childcare, juggling domestic roles etc. Makes you look around and really see who is automatically assumed to be the best people for the roles..and who is not.

@DoobryWhatsit

Intereatingly though, having been a SAHM for years and years, I recently went back to work full time. And now I get lots of admiring comments about how I'm such a role model etc, when in fact I'm feeling guilty that it's so much easier being at work than it was when I was stuck at home with the kids. I would never go back! I guess my point is that being a sahp is massively undervalued in our society.

Yes absolutely this, I’m now in paid work alongside motherhood again but when I hear people imply being a ‘working mother’ is a better role model or in any way morally superior to all the unpaid care work being a SAHP entails it’s really does grate my nerves.

OP - gosh yes really can’t see any contradiction, indeed I see feminism in my life as not allowing the entrenched societal view of care work of being low value/status stopping me from trying to do a good job of having the work life balance in my life to care for my children and have time for friends, family and community as these are genuine personal priorities to me. My feminist ideology also reminds me that I deserve a rest too, that I don’t need to be a martyr and run myself ragged in the face of societal pressure which says I now need to have a high flying career alongside everything else that is expected of women

Of course you can.

Being a carer is a responsibility and we don’t value it enough.

If you have a good education then yes it’s a pity you aren’t using it. If we had a more flexible job market it might be easier. You are probably overestimating the difference between the stressfulness of your job and a more lucrative one. Work is work to an extent, and money equals more control which tends to reduce your stress levels.

The Bride Price, Dowry and all the other terms for paying for a woman upon marriage. How can a woman see it as feminism to be financially supported by her husband, particularly when he gains nothing from it.
I do hope some of these posters claiming that caring for the elderly is an example of true feminism come to the defence of men who want to give up work to care for their parents.I think it is a great idea. The more men financially supported by their wives to promote their caring responsibilities the better. I do hope MN gets behind this and promotes it as real equality.

The more men financially supported by their wives to promote their caring responsibilities the better

Oh they'll be queuing up...

I think the menz will cope “funding?” These are family units we are talking about. Of course men gain from that kind of arrangement. People make choices on the basis of their circumstances. I imagine it is mostly the higher earning spouse who stays in work when this choice is made, there are a few women here on MN whose husbands are SAHD’s.

Society basically treats what is traditionally considered womens work as unworthy. When I had a baby I was wondering why no-one had told me how damn hard it was. Work was easier. If being a SAHM or a carer were a cushty number there would be way more men queuing up to do it. Also Feminism doesn’t centre men, it doesn’t always have to be about men and what is good for them or makes them happy or is “fair” to them.

Men should be queuing up but it won't be popular with most mumsnetters who tend to see a man not working and caring for his elderly parents as a cock lodger. How many of the SAH wives on here care for their in laws whilst their husbands pay the bills? Very few of them if threads on here are anything to go by.
I have just googled the definition of feminism -

feminism is about both sexes having equal rights and opportunities

Why do so many posters on MN hate the idea of men taking on caring roles, and, specifically with reference to this thread, a husband caring for his elderly parents while his wife supports him financially.

Feminism means to me you can do any role you choose to without judgement either way.

I'd argue that if someone says your job means you aren't allowed to be a feminist, then that means that their views are actually anti-feminist.

The whole point of feminism is choices. You can still love and care for your family in a more traditional role and still be a feminist.

But remember that feminism is about both sexes having having equal rights and opportunities. At the moment, MN is very against men taking caring roles if it means the woman financially supporting him, in this instance it is the OP being financially supported by her husband so she can care for her own mother. Surely we should, as feminists, support men having the opportunity to do the same thing without posters screaming 'cock lodger' at any man who dares not to work in order to care for his parents or family. It just doesn't happen.
But then neither does MN condemn women for not contributing financially in the way that they damn men for being at home and not working.

Usually women take on the role of caring for elderly family members because they are already working part time and their career has already been severely restricted because of motherhood. You seem a little but obsessed @twicklette with the idea that women give up work to care for their parents and expect their husbands to finance this? I doubt this happens as often as you think. Usually the women will be in part time or poorly paid work anyway where reducing hours is hardly life changing anyway.

gandalf456 yes, exactly. It was what worked, we both agreed, all of our assets are joint- I never understand marriages with 'my money', 'your money' setups, why be married if you don't trust each other and share everything? But I know others see things differently.

I suppose I am older and I do know a lot of friends from university who never went back to work after having children and justify it in all kinds of ways.
There are women who claim it is feminist to rely on their husbands for financial support. I don't see it like that. I do remember that my mother's GP said her good health and full mental capacity well into her nineties was down to working until seventy and then doing lots of childcare for grand children. Women are sadly much more likely to develop dementia than men which some scientists have put down to not working outside the home.
Believe me, there are lots and lots of older women who don't work and don't drive and rely on their husbands for so much support.
I am hugely fortunate in that my husband does lots of diy, house maintenance and gardening for my elderly mother but then I did lots for his parents at the end of their lives and we both worked full time.
I am convinced that working and being financially independent is so important for women ( and it is a bonus if it helps stave off dementia).
Trying to justify women being so dependent on men is such a backward step. It is harking back to post war years and the little woman at home. Women who try and validate not working and being dependent on their partners is not feminism and not the future.