People stopped by a lone plain-clothes officer should challenge their legitimacy, the Met Police says.

[cheeseismydownfall]

People stopped by a lone plain-clothes officer should challenge their legitimacy, the Met Police says.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58757375

WTAF???!

So, rather than focusing on actually preventing violent, misogynistic rapists from becoming police officers in the first place, it is the responsibility of women to challenge them when they encounter them - alone, after dark?

I can't believe what I have just read.

It’s always our fault isn’t it.

And what power would any one have to do that? Especially any lone woman?

Wouldn't it be simpler to just change the rules so that lone plain clothes police don't arrest anyone? I'm curious as to the impact that would have on policing.

Fucking hell

Good luck with that if you're a young, black man

@crankysaurus

Wouldn't it be simpler to just change the rules so that lone plain clothes police don't arrest anyone? I'm curious as to the impact that would have on policing.

This. The Police could simply change the way they work and say it's a rule that a plain clothed officer cannot arrest a woman unless there's a chaperone of some kind. (Although they might struggle a bit with that given their defacto acceptance of self ID)

So if another poor woman doesn't challenge their legitimacy, and is then murdered, raped, attacked. It's her fault. Because she didn't challenge the vile man who uses his position and power against her. 😡😡😡

I may be wrong but I’m sure I read somewhere that they’re going to change it so police in plain clothes can only arrest someone in pairs - which doesn’t really make anyone feel safer does it? Two perverts could work together etc. I don’t know what the answer is really.

How often are lone plain clothes police officers out arresting people?

They've now said it won't happen, but I wonder if it's much of a change.

Challenge them for what? A Police Warrant card?

Which he used?

They'd be betteroff getting to the root of, and taking seriously, the 'rapist' nickname he had amongst his colleagues. And the claims of indecent exposure/assault prior.

You know, investigate and tackle the misogyny ?

What if they are actually a police officer though? What am I supposed to do then? If I’m on my own, at night?

I’m a 5’2 weakling- realistically I don’t stand a chance.

For a Police force to come out and state essentially that their officers are not to be trusted, fuck!

I know a lot if people don’t trust the Police (rightly so) but equally a lot if us (and I include myself) grew up being told we can trust police officers and they’re there to help us and taught our children the same thing.

If you have ever been stopped by a police man you can't do any of these things.

My car broke down and while I was on the phone to the AA the police man walked up and took the phone out of my hands.

You could not reason with the one I encountered that time.

I can just imagine if I had asked him searching questions.

I know not all police are pricks, we have 2 in the family. Unfortunately, the two times I have had to speak to our local police they were arrogant arseholes who made matters worse due to their superiority complexes.

The second one implied I'd go to jail in front of my 8 year old. She was petrified. I was just stopped for going a couple of miles per hour over the speed limit. I know that is wrong but not as bad as what he did to my daughter.

@JeremiahObadiahJackanoryJonez

For a Police force to come out and state essentially that their officers are not to be trusted, fuck!

I know a lot if people don’t trust the Police (rightly so) but equally a lot if us (and I include myself) grew up being told we can trust police officers and they’re there to help us and taught our children the same thing.

It’s so awful isn’t it. As a society we need to be able to have confidence in our police.

Has anyone got a copy of the actual letter? Because the phrasing in the article:

the Met said it was "entirely reasonable" to demand an officer's identity and intentions.

This isn’t quite what the headline says. The quote implies the met are saying they understand if women would want to get reassurance, suggest ways of doing this (asking them to radio etc); and then say their officers are briefed to expect extra questions.

Very different to “the burden is on women to avoid assault”.

Yes this is exactly it. Maybe you could question the good ones, but an off duty police officer out to cause harm isn't going to be stopped by his victim questioning him and neither are the on duty ones that feature in those videos where they say they'll find some evidence to frame a black young man with.

"Good" police officer know this goes on, often stand by and watch. That's what needs to change.

Then you get arrested for “resisting arrest”.

I was livid when I saw the retired female police officer explaining this. Demand they radio the station before you go anywhere, call 999 if you are unsure. Not sure how that’s supposed to work in a legitimate situation never mind a dodgey one!!

No, women don’t trust the police. Haven’t for a long time and since they went all stonewall even less. Police blarb on constantly about protecting the most marginalised and threatened part of society - ignoring the actual stats that women and girls are at risk.

There have been multiple threads suggesting that women do this in the light of what has happened, but now the police agree it's victim blaming? I can't imagine any woman with an awareness of what happened to Sarah Everard would happily accept cufflinks from a lone male pc, uniform or no uniform. Seems like common sense to me.

Just out of interest what do they think questions are going to do exactly?

So Sarah was stopped by a cop with a warrant card and a terrible plan. If she'd said "please can you radio in and confirm you are legitimate" he'd have, probably, said something like "how dare you question me, do you want to add resistance to the charges against you?" Which may have been a red flag to her but then what? Run? Scream? Fight? In all honesty, if she'd asked questions and not liked the answers she would still have been in the same position wouldn't she?

All this does is allow the "good" cops to reassure people, it does nothing to help if you come across a bad one.

If a woman is scared how likely is she to remember this and to even be able to focus on an id or have any way of telling if genuine?

@Bufferingkisses

Just out of interest what do they think questions are going to do exactly?

So Sarah was stopped by a cop with a warrant card and a terrible plan. If she'd said "please can you radio in and confirm you are legitimate" he'd have, probably, said something like "how dare you question me, do you want to add resistance to the charges against you?" Which may have been a red flag to her but then what? Run? Scream? Fight? In all honesty, if she'd asked questions and not liked the answers she would still have been in the same position wouldn't she?

All this does is allow the "good" cops to reassure people, it does nothing to help if you come across a bad one.

Exactly.

All this is is essentially a version of the whole “wear sensible clothes / carry your keys” victim blaming shit.

The advice isn't that it's womens job to find out if officers are genuine, it's that officers must expect this questioning in the light of events, and should give the assurances requested.

I was once accosted by a lone police officer as I sat on a bench at gone half 11 at night questioning me about my bottle of water. There's no way I'd have felt safe talking back.

And as a pp said thats exactly the kind of behaviour that would land anyone not white face down in the dirt or something.

How about police think abkut their actions ffs.