People stopped by a lone plain-clothes officer should challenge their legitimacy, the Met Police says.

[cheeseismydownfall]

People stopped by a lone plain-clothes officer should challenge their legitimacy, the Met Police says.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58757375

WTAF???!

So, rather than focusing on actually preventing violent, misogynistic rapists from becoming police officers in the first place, it is the responsibility of women to challenge them when they encounter them - alone, after dark?

I can't believe what I have just read.

@Bufferingkisses

Just out of interest what do they think questions are going to do exactly?

So Sarah was stopped by a cop with a warrant card and a terrible plan. If she'd said "please can you radio in and confirm you are legitimate" he'd have, probably, said something like "how dare you question me, do you want to add resistance to the charges against you?" Which may have been a red flag to her but then what? Run? Scream? Fight? In all honesty, if she'd asked questions and not liked the answers she would still have been in the same position wouldn't she?

All this does is allow the "good" cops to reassure people, it does nothing to help if you come across a bad one.

I saw it as them explaining what usually happens and what they can expect.

A lot of people who have had no contact with police wouldn’t know and would previously have assumed a plain clothed police officer approaching them with handcuffs was legitimate and would go along with it (I certainly wouldn’t have questioned it, figuring I’d go along with it and sort it out by explaining at the police station).

The statement explains what is “normal” (the circumstances in which a plain clothed officer may approach etc).

Agree the advice is aimed completely at white middle class women; but then again the only reason we have this media and public interest in the first place is because it was a white middle class women who was attacked. No one gives a shit when it’s poor/black women.

I only lurk on these threads. But I took to Twitter this morning about this- for all the difference it will make. It's disgusting.

Remember the case earlier this year/ last year of the policeman who strangled his affair partner to death and claimed he was just trying to stop her getting out of the car, behind a pub- in Cumbria possibly? and there was an outcry (from us women) that his sentence was far too lenient? Not sure if his sentence has been upped but these things all seem to get conveniently shrugged about and swept under the carpet.

Woman are not allowed to say anything about biological sex and are taken to task by the police and abused by men for referring to the equality act in terms of standing up for sex protected characteristics and spaces- we are silenced and worse- and now we are expected to take responsibility for identifying and stopping untrustworthy policemen raping and murdering us, as well as for all the other men that do this day in day out to us.

I could weep this morning.

I was really shocked reading comments last night that if a police officer reports another officer for misconduct, others will close ranks and refuse to provide back-up.

Can you just refuse to go and help a colleague? I appreciate it means going to a high- risk situation but the fact it is so known that if you raise issues you are on your own is shocking.
Does that happen in other high risk professions? Can the fire service refuse to help another crew? I’m pretty damn sure you can’t in the army.

What sanctions can be imposed for someone refusing to provide back-up?

The upshot is that the good people leave and the bullies and corrupt remain (and get promoted) and the cycle gets worse.

If I challenge the legitimacy of someone claiming to be a police officer and who does does intend to commit a violent crime against me, do we suppose said person is going to wait quietly while we go through the process of checking their legitimacy?

What I also found revolting was the repeated message that the “arrest” was captured on various dash cams. How must tho use people feel, if they spotted someone being handcuffed at the side of the road? Are we supposed to stop everytime, call the police station to make sure it’s all legit? And yes, nice and straightforward when it’s a white woman and all calm, what if someone drunk and struggling is being handcuffed and put into the back of a car? And what if it is a police car? Has no police officer ever committed a crime in a squad car in uniform?
Surely the answer is get these people out at the first sign they cannot be trusted.

How would it have helped Sarah to have challenged Couzins’ legitimacy? He actually WAS a police officer. Complete with warrant card and cuffs.
Come to that, how many of you would be able to tell a real warrant card from a printed mock up?

It was two policemen who took selfies beside Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman's bodies and there were more who didn't report them when they sent them.

There's a deeper problem than single perpetrators.

What they seem to be saying is that if the situation seems dodgy, it's because it may well be dodgy, and you are within your rights to inquire. Which is why police are meant to identify themselves etc.

They aren't going to be able to stop people who have criminal intent from claiming authority inappropriately.

Making it against regs to have a single plainclothes police officer arrest someone might seem a solution, that seems completely operationally unrealistic to me. Sure, you could try and not have it happen and make it usual not to do it, you could try to always have police officers in pairs, those are good practice in general. But police officers are just not always going to be in pairs at every time, nor is every arrest going to be pre-planned.

If you have a single officer who is in a situation with a dangerous person, or discovers a criminal, etc, do we seriously want to say they are not allowed to use their authority as officers to detain people? Cause that will be good for vulnerable women...

This 16 year old girl flagged down a police car for help and ended up being hit with a baton 30 times. The officer was dismissed but no charges were brought against him:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56950484

And how would you suggest they manage not to employ anyone who you view as violent/misogynistic? Have a box to tick on the application form promising they’re not?

I'm on other threads about this.

This 'advice' is ludicrous and bears no relation to real life.

It was from Scotland yard. Couzens was met.

Flag down a bus? Buses don't stop when people wave at them. What if you're not on a bus route?

I have seen a fair few plain clothes arrests. Usually one stops the person and almost immediately at least one other plain clothes appears and usually a load of uniforms as well. They are never alone. IME.

I have not seen a lone cop patrolling ever I don't think. Not the practice here. Always pairs.

But in fact it's so rare as to be never. To see them walking on foot. Or patrolling in a car.

They are seen doing 1000 mph with sirens (blue temp one on top of plain clothes). Or mob handed to nick someone/ a group. You see vans with loads in going around sometimes. But generally it's speeding to somewhere with sirens. Or in helicopter. One of which comes every night and circles near our house at 2am. What they are looking for is anyone's guess. It's very loud though.

So. Met/ Scotland yard.

Surely you should know how the police operate on the ground?

Ok so you're black. Or look a way that they would see you as rough. You're a bit pissed. You're in an area that is dodgy.

Ask him for his radio? Make a phone call? Etc...

Are they taking the piss?

You'll be on the ground with a knee in your neck, maybe a couple of punches, hands behind back cuffed with him 'restraining' you, not really fussed about hurting you/ badly/ or enjoying the power before you can say. Please may I phone 999 for confirmation that you are legit.

I mean. What else is going to happen? It's the met we're talking about.

And like I say. They're never on their own anyway. I've not seen that since a kid. That was decades ago.

In short imo.

This ludicrous 'advice' has been issued to reassure those who:

• Aren't in London
• Have policing that is more on the ground, community focused. Different sort of crime profile, no where near as many people or as large. Just guessing from what I've seen when visiting other places in UK
• Have a police force that don't have a list as long as your arm of genuinely appalling shit. Google met criticism. If you don't live here/ follow it. Corruption, murder and cover up, multiple instances of serial rapists being left to get on with it for ages even though they had loads of reports car reg CCTV etc. Removing ID and covering faces when policing some demos. Racism. Specialist rape unit disbanded due to falsifying reports, tampering with evidence etc. Corruption. Illegal phone tapping. And so much more. They are APPALLING.

They haven't been trusted by a massive proportion of Londoners for decades. I never have. They make me nervous. I don't like it when they're around. Loads of people feel like that and for way better reasons than me. People swing down side streets if there's police. Cross the road. I would say that many are more wary than if walking past a load of dodgy looking blokes.

This advice is not for Londoners.

It is to reassure people in areas that have a force that isn't fucking awful, unaccountable, and prone to doing terrible things way too often.

@NiceGerbil I’d take any complaints about the met with a pinch of salt, I’m not saying they are angels but there are cultural factors at play too here.

Cultural factors? Can you say what you mean by that?

You want me to take my personal experience going back decades, those of my friends, and multiple incidents of outrageous behaviour that has been widely reported, admitted by the met, and subject to govt enquiries etc. With a pinch of salt?.

You want be to take the fact they murdered two innocent men (that I know of) and then LIED to cover up what they'd done. With a pinch of salt? Lying about the behaviour of the men, alleging things that were incredibly upsetting for the families because they were LIES. and only owning up when there was evidence from the public to show they were lying. With a pinch of salt?

I would suggest that you need to read the news, think about what you read, and stop being such a gullible naive fool.