Shamima Begum - misogyny at its finest?

[Schmoana]

Just saw the interview on GMB. It has struck me for a long time that there are hundreds of male ISIS fighters who are British citizens who have been allowed back and prosecuted where appropriate, even without grooming being a factor, and having been directly involved in killing. It’s hardly even reported. But this one woman has been vilified by the British people and British media, and made the figurehead of all that is wrong with ISIS. Her British citizenship has been stripped for populism.

Why is this one woman being held to different standards? What is the difference here between her and the hundreds of men who have been accepted back?

@PlanDeRaccordement

That’s not true that dual citizen men ISIS fighters are being held to different standards. All other dual citizens who fought for ISIS were also stripped of their British citizenship. Look up the Beatles.

The only ones that have been allowed back to face criminal proceedings in UK are those who are only British citizens because international law forbids making a person stateless.

The difference isn’t man vs woman, but dual citizen vs sole citizen.

This.

I do think generally we hold girls and women to higher standards but not in this case.

And for that, we need to raise the standards for men and boys not lower it for the female population.

She will be in prison/ we can keep a close eye on her. Rather than having her gallivanting about with I'd imagine a massive grudge against us.

She's had this 'massive grudge' from the start has she not? You'd have to have one I'd imagine to be so into isis and go off join them and take part/agree with their actions?

This constant 'she had no agency/is a victim' is something I don't agree with.

She’ll get out of prison, and then what? I don’t think there’s much rehabilitation going in these days. I doubt very much a close eye will be kept on her. She will just stew in prison and probably her attitudes will harden.

You are angrier with her about Manchester then the man who carried out the bombing?

I'd like to try to understand that because I don't really get that tbh.

Because people aren't bending over backwards to fight for the rights of this bloke or saying "oh, he's clearly the victim here. We failed to stop him being radicalised etc".

Personally, I probably have more sympathy for the average sex abuser as most of them were abused themselves and genuinely failed by the system.

The only reason anyone is making excuses for her, and feeling sorry for her is that she's female.
That's wrong.
Same as Myra Hindley.
Women can be monsters too.
And before anyone (NiceGerbil) says "she was a 15yo girl", we don't excuse 15yo boys who sexually abuse their female peers, do we? Not on this board at least.

@NiceGerbil

The idea is then to have her somewhere there's more severe penalties?

You are angrier with her about Manchester then the man who carried out the bombing?

I'd like to try to understand that because I don't really get that tbh.

No, I hope he's rotting in hell (I'd like to think there is one for people like him!).

@NiceGerbil

And why is she a different case to all the men who have come back?

In the end this is emotional rather than logical? I can understand that.

Is it that she has been presented to the public as the sort of representative of all the things done?

I don't want anyone who's left to join a terrorist group to come back here. Male or female.

It's actually funny reading some of the terrorist sympathisers here, I have 3 Muslim friends that do not want her in this country.

What has happened here is that the government rightly has found a legal way to make sure she doesn't come back. What is the problem with that.

@Viviennemary

What has happened here is that the government rightly has found a legal way to make sure she doesn't come back. What is the problem with that.

The problem is she should be Britains problem. She is currently a burden to the Kurds who suffered terribly under ISIS, why should they deal with our problem? Why should Bangladesh be lumbered with her? A poor country dealing with all the Rohingya refugees but the precious British should just leave them to it.

The lack of responsibility by Britain is both staggering and shameful.

@deydododatdodontdeydo

The only reason anyone is making excuses for her, and feeling sorry for her is that she's female. That's wrong. Same as Myra Hindley. Women can be monsters too. And before anyone (NiceGerbil) says "she was a 15yo girl", we don't excuse 15yo boys who sexually abuse their female peers, do we? Not on this board at least.

It's not about making excuses for her, it's not about being sorry for her it's about Britain taking responsibility for her. She was born here, grew up here, was radicalised here. She is a British problem. She should come back and face court. Her age and the grooming would be mitigating but she would still face justice.

For all the "Sajid Javid's seen all the intelligence about her." I wonder if that is any better than the intelligence the Americans had that resulted in an aid worker and nine of his family being blown to bits.

All well and good, but she wasn't a woman when she was groomed and left the UK, she was a girl

And the girl became a woman while part of ISIS.

The govt are breaking and undermining all sorts of important conventions laws etc to make an example of her for whatever reason.

No they are fucking not. The U.K. government have broken NO law whatsoever in their treatment of Begum. And they are doing exactly the same as most countries with the approval and sanction of the United Nations. You need to absolutely clear that your opinion is a minority dissenting opinion.

She is currently a burden to the Kurds who suffered terribly under ISIS, why should they deal with our problem?

I very much doubt they are investing the same degree of resources into ensuring her continued comfort as the UK penal system would.

Britain taking responsibility for her.
Britain has taken responsibility for her by stripping her of her citizenship and barring her entry to the U.K. This is a perfectly legal process to counter citizens that go terrorist. You just think that British government should do something else, that’s all.

She is currently a burden to the Kurds who suffered terribly under ISIS, why should they deal with our problem?

No she’s not a burden. The U.N. has called on all members to provide monetary support and humanitarian aid to all the detention centres the Kurds are running. In addition, all member states are to transmit and share all their intelligence on any of the ISIS members in the camps to assist with their prosecution in Syria. It’s actually much better to have this done in a centralised fashion than to disperse all the ISIS members back to their native countries. Not to mention that even within the camps there’s a shadow ISIS structure and they’re encouraging members to carry out lone wolf attacks if they get to go back to a western country.

She may be British but she doesn't have a Western outlook or ideals.

@NiceGerbil

More than 300 blokes have done similar and come back no fuss etc. And they were adults when they went...

This is a bit disingenuous of you. The estimated number of returned ISIS fighters is due them to leaving ISIS before the fall, and sneaking back into the country illegally. The Home Office is of course investigating these people and apprehending them, after which they will undoubtedly strip citizenship, prosecute, imprison/deport.

This is entirely different from ISIS members apprehended after battle in their strongholds in Syria and Iraq. None of them have been let back to the U.K. No men, no women. And Shamina Begum is one of this number. If she had snuck back to the U.K. without being captured, she’d be one of the 300 number you are so fond of quoting.

She certainly wont be fleecing the Kurds or anyone else in that region for hundreds of thousands in legal aid to save her sorry skin.

But to expect the Afghani people to pay Tax for her to be tried and imprisoned because of shifty politics is appalling.

But that is not what is happening. First, the U.N. is funding the prosecution of the ISIS members via the centralised detention centres in Syria. (not Afghanistan and no one is being “taxed” for this). Secondly, it’s not “shifty politics” as it’s all being done with the approval of the U.N. and the U.K. stripping citizenship and not repatriating any British or formerly British ISIS is what most other countries are also doing.
The US has changed its mind and started repatriating some of its ISIS members, but the U.K. is under no obligation or pressure to copy the US.

One thing's for sure, she wouldn't be affording us the same sympathy if the tables were turned!

@PlanDeRaccordement

She is currently a burden to the Kurds who suffered terribly under ISIS, why should they deal with our problem?

No she’s not a burden. The U.N. has called on all members to provide monetary support and humanitarian aid to all the detention centres the Kurds are running. In addition, all member states are to transmit and share all their intelligence on any of the ISIS members in the camps to assist with their prosecution in Syria. It’s actually much better to have this done in a centralised fashion than to disperse all the ISIS members back to their native countries. Not to mention that even within the camps there’s a shadow ISIS structure and they’re encouraging members to carry out lone wolf attacks if they get to go back to a western country.

Burdens aren't just financial. Yes I'm sure it is better to centralise it, as long as the centre isn't here, God forbid we should take some responsibility.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Britain taking responsibility for her. Britain has taken responsibility for her by stripping her of her citizenship and barring her entry to the U.K. This is a perfectly legal process to counter citizens that go terrorist. You just think that British government should do something else, that’s all.

Well 1984 and new speak certainly has arrived. A whole new concept of taking responsibility by not taking responsibility.

*I don't want anyone who's left to join a terrorist group to come back here. Male or female.

It's actually funny reading some of the terrorist sympathisers here, I have 3 Muslim friends that do not want her in this country.*

I don't think anyone particularly wants her in the country. I doubt Bangladesh or Syria does either. My only issue is the breathtaking arrogance of palming our problems off to other countries to deal with.