Is there anything wrong in looking "slutty"?

[Tsubasa1]

I'm just wondering if there's anything wrong with feeling sexy and wearing sexy clothes. I get the impression it's not okay from some of the threads on mumsnet. I've started buying new clothes recently, that could be considered slutty, obviously because it's hot but they make me feel good aswell.

‘But a man intentionally trying to wear a 'sexy' outfit would have the piss ripped out of him.
Imagine Colin turning up to the office in a pair of tight leather trousers.’

Men do wear sexy clothes.

People who find men in tight leather trousers sexy are probably a very small minority.

Like the aforementioned latex body suit, these things are really for stage performances and fetishists.

‘There is no excuse whatsoever for men giving women unsolicited sexual attention based on what they are wearing (or on anything else). But that doesn't mean that you can claim that people's clothing choices have no cultural or social significance.’

Yes, indeed.

But the problem on this thread seems to be that some people cannot see any cultural meaning to clothes beyond sexiness.

So a miniskirt, heels or a top that shows any cleavage is seen on here as first and foremost about sexiness, when very frequently that is neither the intention nor how it is perceived.

I also find the whole cleavage thing irritating because unless you always wear a top buttoned up to the neck, if you have a large bust you are always going to have cleavage showing.

So those kind of unwritten rules amongst women are really about policing certain body types rather than being in favour of generally demure dressing for all women.

But the problem on this thread seems to be that some people cannot seeanycultural meaning to clothes beyond sexiness

This with bells on. There are posts on here that are so bizarre I'm not sure how to even begin unpacking them.

There is a lot of rubbish

cleavage display is not inevitable with a large bust and a v neck line , unless it's a low neckline // a very uplifting bra

But the biggest rubbish is the refusal of some people to understand the effect of the unconscious patriarchal training they receive in what is determined as attractive.

But the problem on this thread seems to be that some people cannot see any cultural meaning to clothes beyond sexiness

Clothes are often chosen to project a particular image, or at least tend to reflect what 'tribe' you belong to. Not all of that is to do with sexual attractiveness. But the signals we send out through our dress and demeanour are complex and multi-faceted, and we notice and interpret those signals minutely and often subcinsciously. So whether a particular set of clothes comes across as 'slutty' (horrible word) will depend on who's wearing it and how they come across in other ways.

I think this stuff is so deep-rooted in human behaviour that we can't really stop ourselves from doing it, however uncomfortable we might find it to confront the sources of our choices and assumptions in the ways we present ourselves. Wanting clothing to be neutral will never make it so. And since sex /sexual attraction is pretty much the most controversial or morally contentious thing you can convey through clothing, it's hardly surprising that it's the most noticed, commented-on and criticised aspect of it.

@midgemagneto

There is a lot of rubbish

cleavage display is not inevitable with a large bust and a v neck line , unless it's a low neckline // a very uplifting bra

But the biggest rubbish is the refusal of some people to understand the effect of the unconscious patriarchal training they receive in what is determined as attractive.

The biggest rubbish is the insinuations that women's choices in clothes are driven only by the aim of attracting or repelling men.

The biggest rubbish is the insinuations that women's choices in clothes are driven only by the aim of attracting or repelling men.

You can dress for yourself however much you like, but if you dress in an overtly sexual way, chances are you are going catch the attention of men for good or bad, whether you like it or not. Doesn't mean they have the right to do anything more than look, but they will look. To be surprised or offended by this is beyond stupid.

I couldn't care less what people choose to wear, come to work dressed as a Christmas tree if you like, but don't be surprised when people overlook your other qualities. We don't all have the time to get to know the beautiful person underneath.

Haven’t read the whole thread but there’s everything wrong with the word “slutty”. I understand the rationale behind the “slut walks” but am too old to reclaim the word and turn it round into something “cool”….when I was a teenager, girls were routinely called this word for any type of sexual behaviour. To me, it’s deeply misogynistic and points up the double standards of “acceptable “ sexual behaviour by men/women.

I’m depressed that nothing much has changed in this regard since the 1980s.

The most overarching “rubbish thing” here is that women and girls are constantly judged by what they choose to wear. There are several threads here at the moment all about “suitable clothing” for girls and women. It’s very very dispiriting.

@Iloveginger

The biggest rubbish is the insinuations that women's choices in clothes are driven only by the aim of attracting or repelling men.

You can dress for yourself however much you like, but if you dress in an overtly sexual way, chances are you are going catch the attention of men for good or bad, whether you like it or not. Doesn't mean they have the right to do anything more than look, but they will look. To be surprised or offended by this is beyond stupid.

I couldn't care less what people choose to wear, come to work dressed as a Christmas tree if you like, but don't be surprised when people overlook your other qualities. We don't all have the time to get to know the beautiful person underneath.

Quite a few assumptions being made there. Your post rather proves my point.

@FrancescaContini

The most overarching “rubbish thing” here is that women and girls are constantly judged by what they choose to wear. There are several threads here at the moment all about “suitable clothing” for girls and women. It’s very very dispiriting.

And in my experience some of the most judgemental people I have met are feminists. I don't remotely wear what the OP would describe as "slutty" but the number of feminists who patronise other women about clothing choices is depressing.

I agree that some of the most judgmental people about women's clothes are women. I've heard many a woman with the attitude of, Oh she got raped or attacked? Well, what was she thinking wearing that short skirt? What an idiot or really wanted it.

Not kidding. Lots of women think this.

Well obviously if I go up to the High Street this afternoon dressed in a white bikini and an open coat, I'm going to attract a lot more attention than just going up there in an anorak and jeans. Not really interested in the politics of it, but in the practicality: Since my intention is to buy some bread and fruit, and not want to appear in the pages of the Daily Mail, then I'll choose the latter.

I think women who want (and enjoy) that type of attention dress accordingly, some even make money from it (or did) like Jodie Marsh and her belt top or Liz Hurley and her safety pin dress.

It's all down to personal choice.

Yes

Loads

I don’t like seeing very young girls dressed in a hyper sexulised way t shirts

Hello boys ect

Men who dress like women tend to dress slutty because they have a sexualised view of women and some times in just inappropriate people turning up to weddings ect like their off clubbing

Like al dress it has a time or a place

The same way eveyone would judge if you turned up in 35 degree heat to Eastbourne beach in a Willy hat a duffle coat and a scarf

They will judge you if you turn up to soft play with a bikini top and short shorts

Oops 😬 woolly hat not Willy

It’s not the clothes.

I wore the exact same top that my colleague did. Same shop. Same item. It was “inappropriate” on me but not on her as she has a smaller bust. How is this far? It’s the same top (black round neck tee) so obviously it is about perception of others about what is suitable for other people to wear.

I find it exhausting preempting what other people will say about my clothes now and just wear what I like.

All of the really hairy situations I've been in involving "over-attentive" men in the street have been when I'm dressed casually and "sensibly". The worst one that happened, I had a big coat and baggy combats on.

There are loads of influences on us when we might choose more revealing or extreme clothing looks: prevailing fashions, wanting to stand out, a little bit of exhibitionism. I've been to clubs where women (and some men) wear really outlandishly revealing outfits, and it's more about generalised showing off than sexual display.

@WinglessSonglessBird

I agree that some of the most judgmental people about women's clothes are women. I've heard many a woman with the attitude of, Oh she got raped or attacked? Well, what was she thinking wearing that short skirt? What an idiot or really wanted it.

Not kidding. Lots of women think this.

There is that but I was more of the judgemental attitude that it's silly or empty- headed to care about clothes beyond their purely functional purpose or to get pleasure out of clothes and dressing up.

@WinglessSonglessBird

I agree that some of the most judgmental people about women's clothes are women. I've heard many a woman with the attitude of, Oh she got raped or attacked? Well, what was she thinking wearing that short skirt? What an idiot or really wanted it.

Not kidding. Lots of women think this.

I think this attitude is more of a defense mechanism. If I can attribute rape to what the victim was wearing (or where she was, who she was with, etc.), I can tell myself that I can avoid rape by wearing something different.

But the problem on this thread seems to be that some people cannot seeanycultural meaning to clothes beyond sexiness

That’s so true. When I look at pictures of me as a fishnetted, lacy topped, highly made up teenager I cringe at how awful and “provocative” I looked but at the time I was just trying to look like Madonna !

@Lessthanaballpark

But the problem on this thread seems to be that some people cannot seeanycultural meaning to clothes beyond sexiness

That’s so true. When I look at pictures of me as a fishnetted, lacy topped, highly made up teenager I cringe at how awful and “provocative” I looked but at the time I was just trying to look like Madonna !

I think most people are aware that teenagers are heavily influenced by pop culture and fashion trends and make concessions for it. Turning up to work dressed liked that in your 40's might raise a few eye brows though.

If clothes were “just clothes”, there would be no difference between clothes coded masculine and clothes coded feminine.

Clothes have always had two purposes: to protect us from/enable us to be comfortable in our environment, and to signal status. Women’s clothing signals we are different to men and our subordinate status. Women are objects for men to look at and our clothing is designed to signal that.

All clothing for women comes with the double bind of performing femininity which is meant to demonstrate our lack of power and reliance on others to be defined. Modest, slutty, respectable, dull, outrageous, sexy - it’s all about being perceived by others and you cannot control that. Wear too masculine clothing- performing woman wrongly. Wear too feminine clothing - also performing woman wrongly. It’s designed so you can’t win.

For men, clothing communicates what group they belong to and how rich they are. We used to have sumptuary laws to rule who could wear what fabrics and colours. Women used to belong to men. Poor women worked and had clothing that showed their sex difference but enabled them to be active. They were thin. Rich women wore restrictive clothing. They were fat. In some parts of Africa today men still value fat women because it shows their wives don’t have to work and get plenty of food.

Men will harass women because they want to show their power. It’s abuse.
Women are not owned in the same way in some parts of the world, but we are never going to have the same status as men as long as clothes are coded differently.

I'll throw my twopenneth in.
The last time I was harassed I was walking home from work wearing professional clothes.
This guy started beeping his horn and wolf whistling. To be honest I was gobsmacked, who the fuck does that. I'm not young. He then started driving along side me telling me how gorgeous I was, really??? Fuck off you wanker. Very upsetting experience. Can't I even walk along anymore minding my own business without some creep harassing me. It frightened me.
My dds have been harassed walking to and from school in school uniform by men. Coincidentally my son never has, same uniform.
I've experienced the worst sexual assaults and harassment when I have been dressed more androgenously. Flat shoes, loose fitting clothing, hair not done, no make up etc. My dds say the same. Harassed when in joggers, hoodies, trainers, no make up, probably more young looking.
I find wearing heels, low cut tops or tighter more 'feminine' clothing such as a dress, wearing make up and styling my hair plus wearing jewellery has the opposite effect, no harrassment.
Maybe it's the fact you 'own it' when out on the town having spent time on your appearance.
Maybe men hate women in public spaces who are just there, existing.
I've also posted on here about my teenage dd getting vile comments from married men old enough to be her dad whilst wearing joggers, no make up etc etc and posters on here have been total cunts about it. Snide bitchy remarks of the "Really? Are you sure that happened?" Variety.
so women can be just as bad.
I also agree men need to grow the fuck up. Women do not openly letch at shirtless men and scream abuse at them do they?
I say wear what you like so long as it is fitting for the occassion.
Walking down the high street topless whether you are male or female is inappropriate. Wearing a cheap several sizes too big, inappropriate and people will judge.
Going to interview for a professional position with facial piercings and neck tattoos inappropriate.
Wearing shorts and a vest in the heat- totally fine. Wearing shorts and a vest at work in most places inappropriate.

Cheap=suit

I still don't see why people seem to be linking male bad behaviour with women's dress

I think the term is referring to a woman who is making a statement that they are interested in ( wanted not unwanted)sex and attraction which is seen as a bad thing for women to be interested in