Tan France dismissing Breast Milk

[LizziesTwin]

This was on my Instagram feed this morning and has made me so angry. He and his partner rented a womb and bought an egg from a woman and are now knocking breast feeding.

@Waitwhat23

From an article on Google News -

'It's wonderful that you have the luxury and the privilege to be able to feed your baby with your breasts.'

FFS. The word 'luxury' really pissed me off. When I had mastitis, I cried everytime my baby wanted to feed because I knew how much it was going to hurt.

That makes no sense. I have friends from 2 countries where if you're rich you have a c section and formula feed. If you're poor you have a natural birth and breastfeed. Being able to formula feed is a sign of wealth and luxury

Agreed - there must also be many women who live in countries where there is no access to clean, safe drinking water where breastfeeding is the safe option.

To my mind, he's using the word 'luxury' as a stick to beat women with - we're 'privileged' because we can have that experience. It completely disregards the difficulties women can face through breastfeeding. He's saying 'luxury' as someone who will never have to go through mastitis (for example).

I'd also point out that in certain circles there is huge stigma attached to bottle feeding.
I don't like being so contradictory, but I'm calling BS on that. In England, only 1% of babies are EBF. Which means that 99% of babies are formula fed to some extent. It is just so unlikely that there's a scenario where you find a vacuum where EBF mums are enough of a majority to create a stigma. If you're referring to HCP as creating a stigma then you are probably referring to them educating expectant mothers on the benefits of breastfeeding, which seems entirely appropriate even if it is emotive. Unfortunately, that education and support doesn't continue after those women give birth; and as PP have pointed out, there is some evidence to suggest the majority of women finish their BF journey before they'd have liked to. The system is failing, not the individual families.

By creating awareness around breastfeeding, by publicising the support that is available, by allowing the conversation to happen as opposed to being guilted into silence, more women are likely to find a way to feed their babies the way they actually want to (whatever that means).

Supported mothers making informed decisions = happy mothers.

He's saying 'luxury' as someone who will never have to go through mastitis (for example). Or knowing the agony of having to make a decision around deciding to carry on or not if it's not working.

@Waitwhat23

From an article on Google News -

'It's wonderful that you have the luxury and the privilege to be able to feed your baby with your breasts.'

FFS. The word 'luxury' really pissed me off. When I had mastitis, I cried everytime my baby wanted to feed because I knew how much it was going to hurt.

The word privilege is also highly suspect. You're privileged because you have breasts and a uterus presumably, and are extremely lucky to be born a woman? Ffs

Agree about the 'luxury' bit. In the old days, richer women didn't breast feed, they gave the job to wet nurses.

I went through intense pain persevering to breastfeed.... never mind the social and professional costs of sustaining it, and the joys of being bitten once she grew teeth! I don't regret it. I am proud that I did, but it was one of the hardest things I ever did (the first month's pain part).

On the other hand, he isn't dissing breast feeding - he is saying 'don't make others feel bad who can't'. And I do agree with that. The social judgement on women if they don't breastfeed is strong.

When I was going through so much pain struggling to feed, some of the pain was emotional - shame based. I felt like I wasn't a full woman and was failing as a mother if I wasn't feeding my child that way. Another friend of mine just didn't have enough milk, and she wouldn't let her baby supplement because she had it so strongly implanted in her that she had to fully breast feed her baby. The baby was underweight for months, and I think consistently hungry, but nobody could persuade her.... she was driven by a sense of shame if she succeed in nourishing her child from her breasts.

If we can promote breastfeeding without imposing shaming of women when they can't, I am all for it.

If we can promote breastfeeding without imposing shaming of women when they can't, I am all for it.

I'd be curious if you could provide examples of where promoting breastfeeding shames women who can't. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I've just never seen it. For a lot of women, the realities are a combination of the two, and I don't see how we can talk about those realities without openly talking about breastfeeding. And we don't appear to live in a world that can openly talk about breastfeeding without the accusation that it automatically shames women who use formula.

I don't think it's a stigma around bottle feeding overall ..... of course almost all babies are bottle fed at some point, whether from extracted milk or as they transition/ women go back to work etc.... That is what the 99% reflects.

But in the first few months it is not bullshit to say a subset of women struggle with intense shame if they are not able to bf successfully.

I realise the promotion of bf is not aimed at women who wanted to, tried and failed.... but I do think they are a casualty of it.

I think it's worth remembering that richer women usually weren't given the choice to breastfeed their children, especially if they hadn't yet produced a male heir. Somehow men knew about the connection between breastfeeding and not getting pregnant (yes I do know it's not a reliable contraception but in the absence of anything else it does have an effect) and wanted their women re impregnated ASAP. Especially if you were married to Henry V111
Plus they had to get back to court duties.
I remember something in The Sun King (Nancy Mitford) about Louis XIV that he couldn't bear any acknowledgement of bodily functions (except when he was busy with his mistresses obv) and women had to be seen at court hours after they had given birth pretending nothing had happened not to mention the horrors of accompanying him in a long carriage drive with him when there would be no opportunity for a pee stop.

I realise the promotion of bf is not aimed at women who wanted to, tried and failed.... but I do think they are a casualty of it.
Those women didn't fail (but I know that you know that). But it is so important to note that those feelings of failure will sometimes come from them not reaching their personal BF goal. That may have been because that goal was unrealistic or it may have been because they were not supported to reach their goal (plus a myriad of other reasons). Having open conversations around the realities of breastfeeding and creating a culture of support is so important to challenge this. We need to talk about it so that women can find a way to feed their babies that they are happy and content with, therefore ending this crazy situation where any mother feels like a failure.

It's not exactly shaming but when my milk supply failed after 10 weeks of breastfeeding and I was seeking help to try to continue, I was constantly hit with 'the amount of people whose milk fails is so tiny that it's sooo unlikely to be that', 'cluster feeding is normal! Even if it seems to be ceaseless, it's normal!' and 'you just need to keep trying'.

It meant that I felt shamed that I wasn't trying hard enough and meant that I continued far past the point I should have when I should have started formula.

I agree with the promotion of breastfeeding but feel that there needs to be a much more honest conversation in settings like antenatal classes (where the narrative is that it's so natural and 'your body will know what to do' and possible issues aren't even touched upon) so that women know how to access support.

I think it's a wider thing than just official promotion - deeply embedded in society, we have ideas of what 'being a good/ successful woman' are. I guess these fall along the basic Madonna/whore paradigm.

On the whore side it's the obvious 'we be sexually attractive' requirement, which I think being freed from is a huge feminist imperative.

On the Madonna side, it's the requirement that we be kind, pure, nurturing, the barer and feeder of children- all at the sacrifice of our own well-being if needed. This is where the shaming comes from if we don't breastfeed.

When my baby was vomiting back all the milk I gave her, I had an existential shame that I was failing at my primary role that I was put on this earth for. And I am not from any religious background and nobody ever told me I should be ashamed. It's much deeper than that. But somehow we women come to believe that the essence of what we are here for us to feed others with the very best we can...... Did my husband feel shame that she couldn't keep milk down? Did he fuck.

I agree with the promotion of breastfeeding but feel that there needs to be a much more honest conversation in settings like antenatal classes (where the narrative is that it's so natural and 'your body will know what to do' and possible issues aren't even touched upon) so that women know how to access support.

Yes totally agree. I went to private antenatal and the conversation was wonderful, and nothing like you described. I could rant for an eternity about how shit the NHS is when it comes to anything that isn't reactive medicine. But then public health isn't even under the NHS umbrella which is a terrible starting point to expect useful conversations around breastfeeding in an NHS antenatal class. It's a shit system which has somehow ended up making individual women and families feel like failures.

Yep pastrydame the privilege of having a female body and all that comes with the burden of being the sex that creates life. I’m sure he doesn’t want to take on the privilege of morning sickness or piles, or tearing or vaginal prolapse. Maybe he would like the privilege of incontinence? All things the surrogate might suffer from. Maybe he wants the privilege of engorged breasts and mastitis too.

@Waitwhat23

From an article on Google News -

'It's wonderful that you have the luxury and the privilege to be able to feed your baby with your breasts.'

FFS. The word 'luxury' really pissed me off. When I had mastitis, I cried everytime my baby wanted to feed because I knew how much it was going to hurt.

Was that a quote from Tan France, Waitwhat23, or the opinion of the reporter? Either way that's a vile way to frame breastfeeding.

This awareness week more than ever people seem to be piggybacking on it to actually bash breastfeeding or push the 'fed is best' narrative. (Not that there's anything wrong with the latter, per se, but it's all the exact opposite of what an awareness week is for.) I've unfollowed a few social media accounts doing this. And now it's a 'privilege' and a 'luxury'? Get to feck!

Indeed. Grubby as hell.

Clearly the single worst thing about breastfeeding is that it’s free. Followed by only women can do it.

Nothing for mega corporations and men to do but invalidate it.

Babies and women will suffer but who cares as long as people spend money they might not easily afford on formula and bottles and men get to pretend both sexes are equal.

Well said Anne!

I just keep coming back to what earlier posters said - regardless of your stance, it’s not a conversation for men to lead and certainly not one with multiple millions of followers who has been a father for five minutes. I wonder about the surrogate who is now dealing with unneeded milk too.

The surrogate mother will have likely taken the pill to tell her body that she hasn't just given birth.

So the hormones she takes prior to embryo transfer (in this case Tan has spoken about using another woman and her eggs), hormones through so her body doesn't reject the foreign body (the egg from another woman) and then, after birth she takes more hormones to dry up her unwanted breastmilk as it is now surplus to requirements.

Of course if you do want the woman who grew and birthed your baby to organise a continuous supply of breast milk as well, you can buy that too.

From a US site:

"For these reasons, surrogates need to be compensated for their extended commitment to the intended family. Most agencies suggest $200–$250 per week of pumping, including shipping costs and all of the supplies necessary to the process.
If you are interested in using your surrogate’s breastmilk following the birth of the baby, this needs to be discussed, negotiated and included in your legal contract prior to the embryo transfer. Speak with your surrogacy specialist for help finding prospective surrogates who are willing to pump, and work with your attorney to outline the terms for your contract"

surrogate.com/intended-parents/raising-a-child-born-from-surrogacy/breastfeeding-and-surrogacy/

I liked this piece. It skirts over the surrogacy but it’s spot on about the formula stuff.

www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/comment/92822/supporting-breastfeeding-is-not-formula-shaming-and-we-certainly-dont-need-a-man-telling-us-otherwise

In all the complicated emotions you might anticipate dealing with after being an egg donor, or surrogate, in this situation, I expect seeing that social media post was not expected.

@bravebananabridge direct quote - news.google.com/articles/CAIiEFWQQczqeyGNMzZJ6dnivusqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow9qOFCzDSvIIDMMeYywY?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB%3Aen

See also his quote about breastfeeding mothers being put on a 'social pedestal'.

I'm not saying the conversation shouldn't be had to reduce stigma around breast and formula feeding but is someone who will not go through the difficulties of breast feeding and the sometimes upsetting decision to stop breast feeding the best person to lead this conversation? Perhaps women, who go through the pregnancy, child bearing and breastfeeding journey, might be best placed to do this.

Although I don't disagree waitwhat, I could probably stomach man discussing this if he had done a bit of research on the topic. Tan France has clearly done zero research. The caption on his post is now edited and makes no sense. He looks like a prize buffoon. Shamelessly making a quick buck off his new found parent status. I'm not sure how he is simultaneously claiming breastfeeding is incorrectly put on a social pedestal while also saying breastmilk is gold standard. "Breastmilk isn't better but actually it is." Gold standard is informed and supported mothers IMO, which you're really not going to get by telling a whole group of mothers to shut up.

I found my breastfeeding journey to be so lonely. The only place I could discuss it was on the sly with a couple of friends. I certainly was not put on a social pedestal.

Sorry for these incoherent ramblings of a hurt woman.

@NiceGerbil

2016

'A team of researchers from the World Health Organisation and Unicef estimated that 800,000 child deaths a year worldwide would be prevented if breast milk was universally used to feed babies, The Lancet reported.'

It is WORLD bf week. WORLD.

This person has ZERO knowledge of the history issues etc.

And wades in anyway.

It's properly disgusting tbh. This has really fucked me off.

Agreed. It’s awful. This man clearly has no idea why we have a world bf week and why it’s incredibly important to protect babies and parents from formula advertising. I’m not against formula as a product or a concept obviously but the industry is fucking despicable.

You are not incoherent at all. And yes, I agree that it would be far more palatable if the man talking about breastfeeding in the media was a scientist or researcher, specialising in this subject even if I think a woman would be better placed to lead the conversation.

And I also found it lonely - I found pressure from both sides. From one 'why are you bothering? Why not just give up?' and from the other 'you're just not trying hard enough - it's best for baby you know?'.

It's hard not to feel lonely when you're breastfeeding at 3am, in pain and tired, with no one to talk to. That's how I found myself on Mumsnet.