Britney Spears

[pallisers]

I know it is a story of more US interest (all over NPR and NYT today) but I am really shocked - but not surprised - by the Britney Spears legal action and wonder what others think.

I remember many years ago thinking she was experiencing post-natal depression or whatever as much of her mental health issues arose after the births of her children (very close together if I remember correctly). But since then she has been in a conservetorship - basically her father ran her finances/life/choices etc for the past 13 years. Meanwhile she was capable of earning millions of dollars as a performer in Vegas but not apparently capable of making her own life decisions? It is like looking at a picture drawn by a child of "Patriarchy". Did Robert Downey Jr spend 13 years with no control over his own money? Did any of the many male performers who struggled with addiction or mental health problems?

www.nytimes.com/live/2021/06/23/arts/britney-spears-conservatorship

[Horehound]

How long is the court thingy going to take?

[PineappleWilson]

@mocktail no idea, but someone on a thread conjectured that she might be on medication which causes significant birth defects, in which case it would be appropriate to prevent pregnancy or, you know, look at alternative treatment options.

[SmokedDuck]

I'm very hesitant to say that she is really ok, or even sort-of ok. It's possible she cannot make serious decisions, but is still, sometimes, competent to work as an entertainer, and even that she might like to do so.

It does sound to me like maybe her care should be moved from her father to some other set of people. But I don't thing conservatorships are handled lightly by the courts, and it's very common for people with the kind of serious mental illness that results in care orders to not see why they are needed. There was a case not long before the pandemic locally to me of a young man in a similar arrangement with his parents, who wanted it severed and was arguing it as an infringement of his rights. Yet there were real, significant problems with some of his decision making capacities.

[Ostara212]

I am honestly baffled how any of this occurred under the law.

I wasn't paying much attention till this week. From what I have read though, the mystery for me is how it was ever legally permitted?

[Ostara212]

NiceGerbil "She's not asking for the conservator thing to be removed"

I don't get this.

[SmokedDuck]

@Ostara212

I am honestly baffled how any of this occurred under the law.

I wasn't paying much attention till this week. From what I have read though, the mystery for me is how it was ever legally permitted?

Why?

There are adults without capacity to manage their affairs.

[Ostara212]

Smoked yes but it's usually the case that the person seriously ill if they are given medication, IUDs etc. And there's not usually a huge profit involved. I've not come across a case where someone so unwell has been ordered to work in a highly strenuous way in order for others to profit.

Is she seriously ill?

Let's think of Charlie Sheen. He said himself, they had to get rid of him on Two and a Half Men partly because he was asking to rearrange scenes so he could hold on or lean on a piece of a furniture.

Fair enough, you can't employ the guy using drugs to that extent. But did anyone try to take control of his life, his decisions, get him sterilised?

[SmokedDuck]

I don't think you can really compare without some pretty significant knowledge of people's medical history, that's the problem with these discussions.

The money element is unusual of course and does raise the question whether someone might be looking to exploit Spears, but in another sense it's not the point - people who are wealthy can still become seriously mentally ill. And then, a very wealthy person without capacity may be more at risk of being exploited if they have control of their own affairs, too, by people looking to take advantage of them.

I don't think being able to work in terms of appearing on stage etc is really indicative of whether she's able to take care of her business or financial affairs. The issue to some extent seems like it might be around what happens when she's off her medications, though people can sometimes be functional in some areas but not others, and it isn't therefore desirable to stop them functioning in the areas where they are more able.

As far as the IUD, that seems unfortunate, but as a pp said, might be related to her medication, or it may be that it's felt that she's particularly vulnerable to sexual exploitation in some way and it allows her some autonomy in that regard.

It's good that she can bring this before a judge, but the idea that the general public has the information, or should have it, that would give us the knowledge to have an informed opinion? I just don't see how that is the case.

[Ostara212]

Smoked "I don't think you can really compare without some pretty significant knowledge of people's medical history, that's the problem with these discussions."

But whatever the facts
When Britney is the one doing the work, why is her father pocketing so much? If he was putting it in a trust for her to use in future, either post recovery or to enable her to do less work in future, there wouldn't be so many questions.

[Jux]

HavelockVetinari

I hope her father burns in hell.

So do I, so do I.

[Bordois]

This is terrible. Practically modern day slavery, do as we say otherwise we take away more of your freedoms. 😔

[NiceGerbil]

[quote PineappleWilson]@mocktail no idea, but someone on a thread conjectured that she might be on medication which causes significant birth defects, in which case it would be appropriate to prevent pregnancy or, you know, look at alternative treatment options.[/quote]
Not caught up.

Conjectured? IE randomly guessed based on nothing, and that she's either deluded or lying...

Why not take it at face value?

The not allowed to have s baby thing is horrific.

[MummBraTheEverLeaking]

I heard it earlier, that has got to be some headfuck. Worked like a dog to earn lots of money, which is then used to pay people who control every aspect of your life. You're paying for your own prison ffs!

Poor woman

[HandlebarLadyTash]

Kanye West another example of someone who could do with support and why the hell cant Donald Trump be locked down.

[VorpalSword]

The one thing that might explain her ability to perform but not be able to make decisions would be a significant brain injury. If the part of her brain that controls being able to think about consequences is damaged she might not be able to make any decision.

But if that was the case why wouldn't it be public? Nothing shameful about this (not that there should be about any MH but people can be weird).

The problem is that it has all happened behind closed doors with just little snippets to go on, which just drives speculation. Maybe the consevator is needed but from the small information available it doesn't look like it is.

[NiceGerbil]

Brain injury is again speculation.

From what I remember all those years ago.

There was one incident where she tried to drive off with a young child on her lap. At the time I thought. There were paparazzi in her face, all around. They get really close and aggressive. She was with her child/ren. She wanted to get the fuck away asap.

Everyone at the time was shock horror but I just thought well I can totally understand why she did it.

Oh and she got all her hair shaved off.

And... That's all I remember.

All the articles I've seen recently about her MH say about shaving her hair. Every single one. As if it was important proof that she was very unstable I mean FFS.

I'm really impressed that after THIRTEEN years of this she's not an alcoholic, a junkie, on massive massive meds, so depressed she can't function or similar.

She must have a huge amount of grit.

Not letting her have s baby. No words.

[Horehound]

In the documentary it does say she locked herself in the toilet with her 1 yr old and refused to open the door for him to go back to the dad.
The way it is described sounds like she may have been threatening suicide. She was then taken to hospital.

[redheadonascooter]

@NiceGerbil

Brain injury is again speculation.

From what I remember all those years ago.

There was one incident where she tried to drive off with a young child on her lap. At the time I thought. There were paparazzi in her face, all around. They get really close and aggressive. She was with her child/ren. She wanted to get the fuck away asap.

Everyone at the time was shock horror but I just thought well I can totally understand why she did it.

Oh and she got all her hair shaved off.

And... That's all I remember.

All the articles I've seen recently about her MH say about shaving her hair. Every single one. As if it was important proof that she was very unstable I mean FFS.

I'm really impressed that after THIRTEEN years of this she's not an alcoholic, a junkie, on massive massive meds, so depressed she can't function or similar.

She must have a huge amount of grit.

Not letting her have s baby. No words.

She said in her testimony that she'd been to AA. She was abusing alcohol and (gossip sites) at the time had her using meth, cocaine and prescription drugs at the time of her breakdown. It was the drug use and resulting erratic behaviour apparently that lost her custody of her children (babies, then).

Regardless that doesn't make any of this excessive control right, it's vile, other celebs go wild on the drugs and don't have this happen to them. But she was abusing substances.

It's never right to take away anyone's body autonomy. I find it appalling that she's not in charge of her own reproduction. I do wonder though if it's as others have said - either concerns about the side effects of her medication or concern that she lacks the capacity to care for an infant.

[NiceGerbil]

The thing with the car and I didn't know about locking in the toilet.

Massive pressure.
PND
She freaked out about her baby being away from her

I mean. I don't know obv. But I just don't see the things I know about as necessarily a sign of the level of mental illness that has been stated.

Drugs booze. Well I mean. What child star doesn't grow up like that. And they're all at it.

If she was a serious addict then kicking it while she's locked away like this would be nigh on impossible. It must be horrendous. Kudos to her for not descending into massive mental ill health and addiction I would say.

In the end we don't know.

Whatever the truth, usually it would have been off to rehab job done. Like all the other celebrities.

She lost custody of her 2 children. I mean how do you cope with that? And then she's been totally controlled for 13 years.

It's just awful.

[NiceGerbil]

'It's never right to take away anyone's body autonomy. I find it appalling that she's not in charge of her own reproduction. I do wonder though if it's as others have said - either concerns about the side effects of her medication or concern that she lacks the capacity to care for an infant.'

She has a boyfriend she wants to marry. He would be there for the baby as well. Plus any number of nannies and what not.

Loads of people who are pretty crap have babies all the time. The threshold for removal is high.

If there are reasons for not allowing her to have her coil out. Or get married..?! Then the court will find out.

The statement from her dad said he loved her and he missed her. So he's controlling her life to the minute. And he doesn't see her? That's very strange.

[OhHolyJesus]

Has this ever happened to a man?

I can think of several examples where it perhaps should have done.

[VorpalSword]

Brain injury is again speculation.

Totally agree. I wasn't saying she had this just it is a possibility that could fit what is known. Unless everything becomes transparent (which is unlikely and might not even be ethical) then all the public have is speculation.

[Jux]

I'm assuming that there's a lot of compelling evidence which the Court have seen in private and won't be releasing. Otherwise insisting she lives under this sort of tyranny is simply cruel and unusual punishment. Why on earth don't they let her get rid of her dad at least?

[derailment]

The wealth management firm in charge of the conservatorship have asked to pull out of it this morning.

news.sky.com/story/wealth-management-firm-wants-to-pull-out-of-britney-spears-conservatorship-12346831

[Jux]

Poor woman. The whole thing is redolent of nightmarish Victorian tales where the female inheritor is locked away so her closest male relative can steal her fortune.... very Dickensian. Not really part of the modern age, or shouldn't be.