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Feminism: chat

How to challenge mixed changing at local pool

164 replies

SomeOriginalUserName · 16/06/2021 17:26

I usually lurk & learn but can't find anything with a search, so can anyone help?

My local pool, owned by the council but signed over to Everyone Active to run, has used the Covid19 situation as an excuse to replace single-sex changing with mixed changing areas.

They claim this is to comply with one direction flow requirements - the separate areas are on either side of a central corridor. Entry is now on the left of the corridor, the same side the men's area is on, and this is now a mixed area. The women's area is on the right and, inexplicably, is completely closed off: People exit on that side so no one can use it. Real nonsense.

I've suggested separate times for male & female, or finding another area somewhere else in the large centre for a second change area, but the male manager has completely dismissed me.

I've cited the Equality Act and single-sex provision. Ignored.

I've countered his 'but there are cubicles' argument by explaining that the 2 foot gap at the top and bottom of the changing stalls and shower stalls are nowhere near offering security and privacy, but he's dismissed me. He's made some references to these meeting standards for Swim England and Sport England?!? And when I've referred him to figures on sexual assaults in leisure centres and info on up-skirting and men shoving cameras under gaps to take photos, he's gone on about gaps being necessary to clean!

And he really isn't interested when I point out that failure to provide safe, private single-sex facilities is exactly why women and girls stop doing sport - because we're effectively shut out.

I understand the guidance about coming ready to swim: I had my costume on under my clothes. But I still need a safe, private area away from men to undress, check my tampon, use the loos, and to shower and change afterwards - I'm not going to put my clothes on over a wet costume and get the bus home before being able to wash out the dirt and chemicals of the pool.

And the excuses he's given for not providing this just don't cut it.

They won't put the info about removing single-sex changing on the website tho - afraid of the publicity I suppose - so women are paying and booking swim sessions only to have to turn around and leave when they discover the situation. I'm not the only one whose complained, but I'm not sure what to do next.

I've emailed the local council, since they own the site and Everyone Active has claimed they're okay with the mixed changing.

And I'm going to write to head office to ask why they think they can ignore the Equality Act, dismiss women's concerns and bar them from the pool unless they're willing to compromise their safety.

Anything else I can do?

Everyone Active have form for failing to provide single-sex facilities in other centres they run and I really don't want to see this happening at my local pool.

(GGGrrrr - waiting all year for the pool to re-open and now the hottest summer ever and I can't swim unless I agree to put myself in an unsafe situation. Angry)

OP posts:
DaisyWaldron · 16/06/2021 18:46

I'd hate to go back to single sex changing rooms. And if I'm thinking about predatory men, I'd certainly rather be able to get changed in a mixed group, with any family or friends I'd come with, than send my 8 year old into the men's changing rooms alone.

heathspeedwell · 16/06/2021 18:47

Our local leisure centre changed to mixed-sex cubicles a few years ago and at first I didn't think twice about getting changed in the mixed sex cubicles. I thought they were handy as my friend and I could get changed together and chat. But then when we were getting dressed we suddenly realised a man in the cubicle next to us had pushed his head under the gap and was watching us.

We quickly got dressed and were so shocked we just left without making a complaint. It was only afterwards that we realised he was probably masturbating while watching us and may have made a mess on the floor, which would be horrible for the next person or family using his cubicle in bare feet.

On the plus side, there was no sign that he was filming us, but sadly men filming women in these situations is incredibly common. There are whole porn sites devoted to footage of women who don't realise they are being filmed.

audweb · 16/06/2021 18:51

@Masdintle

Because some men parade through to the cubicles to the showers naked
I’ve been using communal changing pools since I was a child - I’m in my early forties now and I have never ever once witnessed this. There’s normally staff around. In fact, my worst experiences of changing were in single sex ones and my dad used to take me and I had to go in by myself as I was older than 8 but not much and was once attacked by some other girls. Terrifying. I assume this makes it easier for families.
AfternoonToffee · 16/06/2021 18:53

I was starting to feel like I was in the wrong for never having used a mixed-change at the pool!

I get it, different people have different levels of comfort and haven't had experiences that would make them feel unsafe getting undressed and showering alongside men.

But enough of us have, and it is a real barrier, so just brushing people off when they object isn't any kind of a response.

For many of us though, mixed sex is the absolute norm, as already mentioned I use 4 pools within a 12 mile circumference of my house (and the sea if I so wished) all are mixed sex. My options are mixed sex or never go.

Where I grew up the changing rooms were single sex but they have since been knocked down and rebuilt and is now a changing village.

dementedpixie · 16/06/2021 18:53

I've never witnessed naked men parading about either. Our showers are poolside so I very much doubt anyone would want to be seen naked in them

ineedaholidaynow · 16/06/2021 18:55

I've never seen men walking about naked to the showers either, but then the showers at our local pool are poolside and there are huge windows on the other side of the pool area, so that would take a certain sort of exhibitionist to walk out of the showers naked.

Beamur · 16/06/2021 19:00

I think a family changing room/s are good ideas. I can absolutely confirm seeing naked men in the changing areas. So much so, there are signs up reminding users that swimming costumes have to be worn in all communal areas. The shower and toilet is not unisex.

Stichintime · 16/06/2021 19:03

I wouldn't be shocked to see a penis. I think mixed changing is fine, as long as there's cubicles as well. Personally I would use a cubicle, but don't feel men and there penises are a threat because they are changing outside. Never seen anyone showering naked at a swimming pool. I guess the gap under the door is so the water can flow or be brushed out.

SomeOriginalUserName · 16/06/2021 19:03

So sorry about your experience @heathspeedwell

Yes, the issue isn't pearl clutching at the sight of an accidental naked man (the horror! lol), but the very real issue that some men indulge in abusive and coercive behaviours and that mixed changing areas leave women vulnerable.

It's great that many women find mixed areas helpful with children, although my pool had family cubicles in both the male and female area, so mums or dads could both take the kids swimming with no worries.

Meaning making things accessible for families doesn't have to be contingent on withdrawing single sex provision. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Single sex provision offers better protections for women and girls, without removing provision for families, and without affecting men at all.

Thanks for the helpful suggestions - I'm off to begin my campaign.

Or start digging my own pool - because I really really love swimming and hate the thought of being forced to give up because I no longer feel safe or comfortable.

OP posts:
TeddingtonTrashbag · 16/06/2021 19:04

Bad idea to go swimming with a tampon. If you really must then change it the loos where everybody else does

Dancingalong · 16/06/2021 19:07

Personally I avoid going to swimming pools that have single sex changing areas as I’d have to send my 9 year old son separate and would not feel comfortable with that. Most of our local pools have mixed changing all cubicles.

NiceGerbil · 16/06/2021 19:11

Total aside but why is it a bad idea to go swimming with a tampon?

nocoolnamesleft · 16/06/2021 19:13

This is why I stopped going swimming.

334bu · 16/06/2021 19:13

Our local swimming pool has had a mixed changing village set up for years. However, when it was first set up , it took only a month before wire meshes were put on the tops of the cubicles. Some bright spark hadn't realised that open tops meant anyone could stand on the bench and peer into the adjacent cubicles. Haven't been in years so don't know how they get round the problem of phones under doors and mini cameras through the roof. All I do know is that when looking up some stats about voyeurism, I discovered that there are thousands of sites ,live feeding footage from such changing rooms, all over the world. So smile ladies you may be on camera somewhere.

SomeOriginalUserName · 16/06/2021 19:13

@TeddingtonTrashbag

Bad idea to go swimming with a tampon. If you really must then change it the loos where everybody else does
No, its not @TeddingtonTrashbag and don't try and make me feel wrong or dirty for doing so.

Swimming while using a tampon is perfectly acceptable and normal. Grow up.

And of course I change my tampon in a toilet cubicle - you must be stupid or wilfully trying to misunderstand.

I clearly said I wanted to check my tampon - making sure the string wasn't hanging out - not change.

Go troll someone else.

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 16/06/2021 19:14

@TeddingtonTrashbag

Bad idea to go swimming with a tampon. If you really must then change it the loos where everybody else does
Why is it bad to swim with a tampon? You can't swim with a pad. Just interested.
dementedpixie · 16/06/2021 19:16

They're talking bollocks. Of course its ok to swim with a tampon

OvaHere · 16/06/2021 19:17

All the newly built leisure centres seem to have the changing villages. There's a number of plus points to having them for families and children's swim lessons but I think the designs should have incorporated single sex spaces also for those that would prefer them. I can't see this happening anytime soon unless we reach a South Korea like crisis point (see thread on South Korea).

Einszwei · 16/06/2021 19:27

@OvaHere South Korea is a very different society.

OvaHere · 16/06/2021 19:30

[quote Einszwei]@OvaHere South Korea is a very different society.[/quote]
It is but men tend to be men universally and I know for certain that voyeurism and spy cams are a growing problem here too. Just not to the level of South Korea right now.

hampton29 · 16/06/2021 19:31

I was sexually assaulted in a mixed changing room at a swimming pool aged 7. My mother reported it to reception and they said there was nothing they could do, it happened quite often. It was in the 90s so I don’t know if things were different but there is absolutely no way I’d use or let my children use mixed sex changing rooms with gaps at the bottom.

NiceGerbil · 16/06/2021 19:33

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.

FierceBarrie · 16/06/2021 19:35

You might also want to raise the issue on this thread.

Although it’s unclear if the OP is ever coming back.

NiceGerbil · 16/06/2021 19:38

Oh hadn't noticed.

Hope OP does. Hate it when OP posts once and that's it.

Jocasta2018 · 16/06/2021 19:58

At my local council pool, there's a mixed sex changing village. It also had massive gaps at the bottom of the cubicles - 12-18 inches - which wasn't great.
When I last went, the council had put sheets of wood over the gaps as there had been complaints!
As a PP said, always a lot of staff cleaning the area...