How to challenge mixed changing at local pool

[SomeOriginalUserName]

I usually lurk & learn but can't find anything with a search, so can anyone help?

My local pool, owned by the council but signed over to Everyone Active to run, has used the Covid19 situation as an excuse to replace single-sex changing with mixed changing areas.

They claim this is to comply with one direction flow requirements - the separate areas are on either side of a central corridor. Entry is now on the left of the corridor, the same side the men's area is on, and this is now a mixed area. The women's area is on the right and, inexplicably, is completely closed off: People exit on that side so no one can use it. Real nonsense.

I've suggested separate times for male & female, or finding another area somewhere else in the large centre for a second change area, but the male manager has completely dismissed me.

I've cited the Equality Act and single-sex provision. Ignored.

I've countered his 'but there are cubicles' argument by explaining that the 2 foot gap at the top and bottom of the changing stalls and shower stalls are nowhere near offering security and privacy, but he's dismissed me. He's made some references to these meeting standards for Swim England and Sport England?!? And when I've referred him to figures on sexual assaults in leisure centres and info on up-skirting and men shoving cameras under gaps to take photos, he's gone on about gaps being necessary to clean!

And he really isn't interested when I point out that failure to provide safe, private single-sex facilities is exactly why women and girls stop doing sport - because we're effectively shut out.

I understand the guidance about coming ready to swim: I had my costume on under my clothes. But I still need a safe, private area away from men to undress, check my tampon, use the loos, and to shower and change afterwards - I'm not going to put my clothes on over a wet costume and get the bus home before being able to wash out the dirt and chemicals of the pool.

And the excuses he's given for not providing this just don't cut it.

They won't put the info about removing single-sex changing on the website tho - afraid of the publicity I suppose - so women are paying and booking swim sessions only to have to turn around and leave when they discover the situation. I'm not the only one whose complained, but I'm not sure what to do next.

I've emailed the local council, since they own the site and Everyone Active has claimed they're okay with the mixed changing.

And I'm going to write to head office to ask why they think they can ignore the Equality Act, dismiss women's concerns and bar them from the pool unless they're willing to compromise their safety.

Anything else I can do?

Everyone Active have form for failing to provide single-sex facilities in other centres they run and I really don't want to see this happening at my local pool.

(GGGrrrr - waiting all year for the pool to re-open and now the hottest summer ever and I can't swim unless I agree to put myself in an unsafe situation. )

[Einszwei]

My local pool has had unisex changing ever since I was a child. I have never known any different.

It is really useful, especially when a family with kids. It removes the 'are the boys too old for the womens changing room' debate.

[tigger1001]

I've rarely been to a swimming pool with single sex changing rooms. It certainly made going with the kids far easier as we were all in one place.

But it's all cubicles, with some family cubicles too. I wouldn't be comfortable at getting changed if there wasn't individual cubicles to use. So for me it would depend - all cubicles with no one getting changed in the open, wouldn't have an issue, but people getting changed in the open would be uncomfortable for me.

[SomeOriginalUserName]

I'm really surprised that mixed-changing is the norm for so many people.

And it's great that some people don't have a problem with it.

I do.

I walked in to the mixed area and immediately didn't feel safe, let alone comfortable, and now I have to face not being able to swim again unless I set aside my comfort and safety.

This is depressing.

I thought this was what the single-sex provision in the Equality Act was for.

[talkingdeadscot]

@Temp023

Used a mixed changing room for years, never gave it a thought!

That's nice for you. I don't want to change in mixed facilities. I shouldn't have to give a reason but I've had a double mastectomy and I'm just not comfortable. I also don't want to see naked men wandering round when I'm trying to shower and change.

I now avoid all situations where there may be mixed facilities and as I live in Edinburgh, these are many. They aren't even honest about it. If it's so hunky dory and no one but me is bothered why don't they just tell us up front?

[ineedaholidaynow]

The cubicles sound similar to what you would find in most mixed sex changing areas. You have probably been lucky to have a pool that has since sex cubicles. Have to say any pools that I have been to that have single sex changing areas tend to be one big enclosed area for each sex and no cubicles. Give me a mixed sex changing cubicle any day over that

[ineedaholidaynow]

@talkingdeadscot why would you see naked men, unless you are looking over a cubicle

[Masdintle]

Because some men parade through to the cubicles to the showers naked

[toocold54]

I thought all pools had mixed sex changing rooms do I’m surprised yours doesn’t.
Are there actual cubicles? If not I’d definitely be asking for them. If there are maybe you could write to make these safer by having no locks or making a rule that no children are allowed in the changing rooms alone or something.

[StillWeRise]

I have never seen that.
OP I would start lobbying for single sex swimming sessions.
Ask them if they have done and impact assessment (is that what its called?) on how this affects women and people with religious needs for single sex provision.

[OhHolyJesus]

For me it doesn't matter what others are comfortable with, used to, or would expect, this pool has made a change without looking into other options to accommodate single sex provision which was what they had previously, the OP has complained and asked reasonable questions and offered suggestions, the answers given were unsatisfactory, the OP is asking for ideas of how to escalate and links to support.

If this is a pool where you have a membership OP I would look into the terms of contract and think about how they may have explained pool closures or noticed members or service users of maintenance periods. COVID regulations sounds reasonable but their solution has created another problem and they sounds very obstinate to taking your concerns seriously.

I imagine they have not indicated how long these new arrangements will be in place?

[AfternoonToffee]

Everytime changing villages come up on here there are claims about naked men, yet those who have regularly used these set ups advise that it is not an issue.

I am not sure the Equality Act says that there has to be separate facilities, just that there can be.

[SomeOriginalUserName]

Seriously?

Mixed-sex changing areas are usually just plywood cubicles with large gaps at top & bottom for both the changing and shower areas? Jeebus!

I wouldn't mind people walking around naked in a single-sex open area, so long as they were all female (or little kids, of course - but there are large family cubicles, more like rooms).

So sad to think I've been lucky to have felt safe swimming all these years when so many women were put into those situations.

It explains why I couldn't find any info on how to challenge this online - no one is challenging it!

[NiceGerbil]

Mixed sex changing villages are the norm round here but they are purpose built. And still are where 85% of the sex related dodgy stuff happens.

In this case they weren't designed for it- op says big gaps. So that is rubbish.

[AfternoonToffee]

There are 4 pools near to me, all in different authorities, all have changing villages. I can't see it being that all four are breaking the law.

[Librariesmakeshhhhappen]

The only swimming pools I've ever used (only loved in 4 towns so not a huge sample) have all been mixed sex changing, with gaps above and below.
The equality act allows for single sex services if required, so it's to protect companies who choose to have single sex provisions. It isnt there to force companies to have single sex provisions. It's a non-starter really, if the service provider is choosing not to use the exemption because they dont deem it as required. They wont listen to that argument.

The pool we used when I was growing up had terrible rates if assaults on women. So much so that there were actually holes being drilled in the dividers between the changing cubicles by men, and the holes wouldn't be filled for days. So you would go into a changing room and discover a hole. If you didnt notice, then you would be getting changed next to a peep hole because the staff never bothered to shut those cubicles. Still, they refused to separate men and women. It's an uphill battle which you'll most likely lose.

[BeingATwatItsABingThing]

I’m not even all that comfortable changing in female only changing rooms unless I’m in a cubicle. I would not be changing with such inadequate cubicles or no cubicle in a mixed sex changing room. They would lose my custom.

[SomeOriginalUserName]

@OhHolyJesus

For me it doesn't matter what others are comfortable with, used to, or would expect, this pool has made a change without looking into other options to accommodate single sex provision which was what they had previously, the OP has complained and asked reasonable questions and offered suggestions, the answers given were unsatisfactory, the OP is asking for ideas of how to escalate and links to support.

If this is a pool where you have a membership OP I would look into the terms of contract and think about how they may have explained pool closures or noticed members or service users of maintenance periods. COVID regulations sounds reasonable but their solution has created another problem and they sounds very obstinate to taking your concerns seriously.

I imagine they have not indicated how long these new arrangements will be in place?

No, no idea how long this will be in place, especially with freedom day being put back all the time.

A big concern is that they would use this as an excuse to make the change permanent, as they have mixed changing at other sites and - as I'm learning! - mixed changing is increasingly common!

As other posters mentioned, I'm suspicious as to why they refuse to post the removal of single-sex changing on the website, and think they might just present the change as a done deal a few months down the line.

I'm going to take the advice of contacting councillors, writing to Everyone Active head office for an explanation of why alternatives weren't considered and for a date for return to normal.

And I'm going to chase the council FoI for its position re the Equality Act and how much it subsidises the pool. We shouldn't have to rely on the religion argument, but there is a high % of muslim, jewish, and christian people in the area who would be affected. Maybe that's why it has been single-sex so far.

[stuckinarutatwork]

Perhaps you'd like to share this article with the manager. A pervert was caught spying on a young girl in the unisex changing village at an Everyone Active pool:

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/481356/Marines-officer-facing-axe-for-spying-on-pool-girl-11

[talkingdeadscot]

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@talkingdeadscot why would you see naked men, unless you are looking over a cubicle[/quote]
There aren't enough cubicles and there's one big mixed changing area leading to mixed showers. Some people don't mind wandering through to the showers naked.

I'm old school. When I used to take my children swimming areas were clearly single sex and no mixing was allowed. I was happy with going swimming and to the leisure centres up to about 5 years ago when everything suddenly became mixed (or neutral gender)

And tbh, it's a bit crass of you to imply that I must be the one causing the problem I'm unhappy about. Why is my dignity not worthy of respect? Because I'm a middle aged woman that's why.

[MoltenLasagne]

Do you have a local women in sport initiative OP? If so I'd raise with them too as an increasing barrier to women's access to activity.

I've never seen a mixed sex changing area in all the pools I've been to, at some there was additional family provision for those who wanted to change together but never as the only option. I wouldn't want to use a mixed sex changing area either and would certainly be unimpressed if the service hid that the single sex provision had been removed.

[SomeOriginalUserName]

[quote stuckinarutatwork]Perhaps you'd like to share this article with the manager. A pervert was caught spying on a young girl in the unisex changing village at an Everyone Active pool:

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/481356/Marines-officer-facing-axe-for-spying-on-pool-girl-11[/quote]
Those poor girls!

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm afraid of.

And it shouldn't be a matter of luck to go for a swim and not have to worry about this.

Yes, the vast majority of people are not pervs, although the vast majority of men also lack awareness of how their behaviours can impact women (the walking around d1ck swinging without a care in the world type - lol!)

[SomeOriginalUserName]

@MoltenLasagne

Do you have a local women in sport initiative OP? If so I'd raise with them too as an increasing barrier to women's access to activity.

I've never seen a mixed sex changing area in all the pools I've been to, at some there was additional family provision for those who wanted to change together but never as the only option. I wouldn't want to use a mixed sex changing area either and would certainly be unimpressed if the service hid that the single sex provision had been removed.

Thank you.

I was starting to feel like I was in the wrong for never having used a mixed-change at the pool!

I get it, different people have different levels of comfort and haven't had experiences that would make them feel unsafe getting undressed and showering alongside men.

But enough of us have, and it is a real barrier, so just brushing people off when they object isn't any kind of a response.

I remember the centre did take part in the This Girl Can campaign and just checked - at the time they offered women only swim sessions so they recognise it's a barrier.

Have saved the webpage now - thanks!

[Librariesmakeshhhhappen]

I have to say, I've never seen naked men wander about. Everyone showers in their swimming suit. So naked men has never been something I've seen. The worst is maybe men opening the cubicle door with a towel wrapped round their waist if they've left something in their locker.

That doesnt change the assaults that absolutely do happen in the changing village.

[AfternoonToffee]

There aren't enough cubicles and there's one big mixed changing area leading to mixed showers. Some people don't mind wandering through to the showers naked.

Blooming heck, none of mine are like that. The poolside showers are open, but then there are locked shower cubicles / within the single sex toilets.

[trilbydoll]

Ours is a changing village but the gaps under the cubicles are very small from what I remember. I'm pretty sure they don't go down to the floor though. I guess that's better than 2 foot gaps but I don't think it would necessarily prevent voyeurism.

There are family changing rooms which are fully enclosed. And single sex toilets. Would that be considered sufficient provision, ie there if you have an issue you can get changed in the toilets? That doesn't seem entirely fair given how bad they usually smell!