51% of women have been sexually assaulted by a partner in their sleep

[SapphosRock]

*trigger warning - sexual assault

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This is horrifying:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/15/the-sexual-assault-of-sleeping-women-the-hidden-horrifying-crisis-in-britains-bedrooms

If 51% of women in relationship have effectively been raped by their partners it suggests 49% of men in relationships are rapists.

How on earth is this happening in a civilised society?

Trigger warning

I had a nervous breakdown over 25 years ago as a result of my husband abusing me in my sleep. I'd regularly wake up to him doing things. It affected me so deeply and I'd be so distressed but he wouldn't or couldn't see what he was doing as wrong. I was young and I know it made me feel so sick but I didn't associate it with rape. He justified it as him finding me attractive and just wanted to wake me up see if I'm in the mood, he didn't,I'd wake up with him inside me and he'd say he thought I was awake and I'd been responding by moaning. I left the relationship after getting some help for my mental health and my therapist telling me I was being abused. But it's still taken me till a few years ago to actually accept that and I can clearly see it as rape now.

I still have to see this evil shit as we gave children and now grandchildren together. It's hell.

Confided in close friends and sisters in the last few years and was so shocked that most of them had experienced similar but not on the same level as me!

[quote SapphosRock]Does anyone know if the 'cup of tea and consent' video is shown to boys at school? If not it should be from year 8 or 9 onwards

[/quote] My son's ( independent) secondary has been showing it to all kids, every year, for the last 4 or so years I think.

Babdoc I think our meaning of consent has changed an awful lot over the past 20 years. Marital rape was only recognised as a crime in 1991.

You gave blanket consent within a loving relationship, but it was implicit rather than explicit, am I right? I think the message is starting to land that consent has to be explicit, enthusiastic and continuing. It's a different lens.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that the women who answered the survey were coming from a different place than you here as they were self-selecting and the survey was framed and publicised as a survey about abuse. I think if you were answering it within that frame you (for example) would not have ticked yes to the question.

@QuentinBunbury

Terrible...and it’s a survey of 22,000 women. So that’s a large sample size. However, it asked “have you ever”. So the number is over lifetime and all partners. It’s not counting the number of women currently with partners who do that.

What the hell kind of response is that? Too many men do it and too many women are victims are my immediate thoughts on reading the article, not to look for ways that "it's not that bad".

Honestly. The minimising and rape apology on here makes me feel ill.

Trying to get an accurate idea of the scale and extent of abuse isn't minimising though @QuentinBunbury, just in case you were referring to comments about how to interpret the stats. I'm sorry if that wasn't what you meant.

It's happened to me with a holiday fling - woke up to find him inside me, just pulling out, without a condom - when I'd insisted on condoms before. This is what Julian Assange was convicted of rape for. Tbh it did not upset me particularly, I just thought it was ignorant and inconsiderate, but that was a long time ago, and I do not in any way expect other women to feel as I did. I do think that if it had been a regular partner who did this having been told I didn't want it, I'd LTB immediately.

Two perpetrators for me too, one just once, a guy I was casually seeing spiked my drinks at a party and then took me off to a bedroom to 'lie down', I passed out and woke to find his hand in my pants, and an ex (first proper boyfriend) who regularly raped me in my sleep and would then carry on when I woke. The stats may not be quite so high over the whole female population but the real number would still be horrifying.

This has happened to me too with an ex when I was younger. Part of a pattern of behaviour that led to me leaving.

@HoldontoOneMoreDay

" I think the message is starting to land that consent has to be explicit, enthusiastic and continuing. It's a different lens"

This has happened to me.
Quite few times 25 years ago with a partner. I wasn't happy but didnt' recognise that the man I loved and whom I thought loved me was happy to abuse me in my sleep and that that was allowed to be not ok.

And recently. A very old friend who was staying over to do some work on my house. Knew of my background of CSA. I had some wine (i never usually drink so it wasn't much but i ended up really tipsy). Woke up to find him 'doing stuff' to me. Had a horrible effect on me.
So, shamefully perhaps, I'd add 'sober' to your list.

@52andblue no shame here my love, that shouldn't have happened to you and yes, it's also starting to be recognised that consent can't be given by drunk, drugged or otherwise incapacitated people.

Clearly this is a difficult area to police - we're soaked in a culture of 'having a drink to feel confident enough to have sex'. But when you wake up to find someone doing something to you, you are being assaulted and I please, please, please do not want you to feel ashamed about that because it was not your fault.

This happened to me, and it didn't occur to me it was rape, just it was awful. I did ask him why and he said he 'thought I'd enjoy being woken up like that' we split not long after...

@HoldontoOneMoreDay

He (was) my oldest school friend.
I did try to speak to him about it (some weeks after) by text.
He told me I was wrong and that I'd 'wanted it' because he'd carried on in the morning when I was semi awake (& I'd not really seen how to say no and in a way the damage was done by that point anyway) so that had 'let him know the night before was ok'. It wasn't. I can't imagine listening to a female friend describe the CSA she'd survived & then 'putting her to bed as she was a bit tipsy' and getting in and touching her whilst she was not in a fit state to consent. It's horrible.

Thank you for your kind words. I thought it was my fault for having too much wine. It's funny, I have teenagers. They have ASD so I am careful to drill into them not to drink alcohol at parties, to be careful not to leave soft drinks unattended etc. I tell them it 'wouldnt' be their fault but you can't be too careful, you need to protect yourself'.
And I let my guard right down. I feel so ashamed. I'm just glad they will never know. Sorry to derail the thread & thank you for your kind words.

I left my husband a fortnight back and this was one of the main reasons. Been going on a while and 'only attempted entering me once..But there has been multiple instances of groping and such. I told him the first time I found it creepy as fuck and that it's assault. He responded by being more on the ball about movement and such..meaning if I seemed to be waking up, he would start snoring and go still. I only realised it was still going on quite recently when I kind of awoke but must have still seemed asleep. Then i sort of froze and pretended to still be asleep to see where he would go with it, and it went on for ages until I moved in 'my sleep' to put an end to it.. It was one of the most sickening experiences of my life tbh. Even more so as he knows damn well how it made me feel when I discovered it last time, so he clearly gave not a single fuck. I am devastated to find out this seems to be quite common. I figured it was just a few,which was a bit more comforting. Not sure I will ever trust another guy to share my bed like.

[quote 52andblue]@HoldontoOneMoreDay

He (was) my oldest school friend.
I did try to speak to him about it (some weeks after) by text.
He told me I was wrong and that I'd 'wanted it' because he'd carried on in the morning when I was semi awake (& I'd not really seen how to say no and in a way the damage was done by that point anyway) so that had 'let him know the night before was ok'. It wasn't. I can't imagine listening to a female friend describe the CSA she'd survived & then 'putting her to bed as she was a bit tipsy' and getting in and touching her whilst she was not in a fit state to consent. It's horrible.

Thank you for your kind words. I thought it was my fault for having too much wine. It's funny, I have teenagers. They have ASD so I am careful to drill into them not to drink alcohol at parties, to be careful not to leave soft drinks unattended etc. I tell them it 'wouldnt' be their fault but you can't be too careful, you need to protect yourself'.
And I let my guard right down. I feel so ashamed. I'm just glad they will never know. Sorry to derail the thread & thank you for your kind words.[/quote]
@52andblue he was your oldest friend, why on earth wouldn't you let your guard down? You felt safe. It wasn't your fault.

I too struggle with the messages I give my teen, it's never the victim's fault but you do want them to be careful and not be the unlucky one. That can mess with your head a bit I think. But to you, and everyone else on this thread, it wasn't your fault.

This happened to me, to my knowledge only once.
I got very very drunk about 12 weeks after having a baby. I left husband at home with baby and went out. Drank like I had pre pregnancy and was obviously well and truly tanked. I fell asleep at soon as I was home. He had sex with my body and filmed it. Showed me the next morning.
I have never felt so fucking awful as that morning. I didnt remember any of it. That baby is now 30 years old, that marriage limped along another few months.
Weirdly glad to know I'm not alone, fucking angry its happened to so many.

God I'm so sorry to all the women on this thread who have had it happen to them. It's a horrible feeling.

It has happened to me twice actually. The first time I realised it was wrong straight afterwards but the second time I didn’t until years later.
I was early 20s and the first few weeks into a new relationship with a man (before I came out as gay). We’d had morning sex and I fell asleep afterwards with him spooning me. I woke up to feel him having anal sex with me, something I’d never done before (or since) with him or any other partner. At the time I felt shocked, embarrassed and quite put out as anal sex wasn’t something I would have consented to if I’d been awake. It was only recently it struck me how wrong that was.

The crux of the problem is the man feeling like his sexual gratification is more important than his partner’s right to have a peaceful sleep without being violated.

Someone mentioned about it happening in same sex relationships. I imagine it’s as rare as a woman assaulting her male partner in his sleep. Women don’t tend to behave like that.

sappho
I woke up once having sex with exH, he claimed also to be asleep and that we must have both wanted it, I never thought much about it other than weird (we stopped when I woke up cos I wasn't into it). I'm wondering now though because he could be sexually coercive in other ways.

My DW has just told me about this song from the 70s. Ian Dury 'wake up and make love to me'. The lyrics are dodgy to say the least. I'm glad times have changed, but there is still a long way to go.

I come awake with a gift for womankind
You're still asleep but the gift don't seem to mind
Rise on this occasion, halfway up your back
Sliding down your body, touching your behind

You look so self-possessed
I won't disturb your rest
It's lovely when you're sleeping
But wide awake is best

Wake up and make love with me, wake up and make love
Wake up and make love with me
I don't want to make you, I'll let the fancy take you
And you'll wake up and make love

You come awake in a horny morning mood
And have a proper wriggle in the naughty naked nude
Roll against my body, get me where you want me
What happens next is private, it's also very rude

I'll go and get the post
And make some tea and toast
You have a lover's sleep, love
It's me that needs it most

Wake up and make love with me, wake up and make love
Wake up and make love with me
I don't want to make you, I'll let the fancy take you
And you'll wake up and make love

Somewhere in the Guardian article it mentions that men might be too scared of consensual sex when she’s awake in case they underperform or whatever. Honestly what kind of pathetic nut job goes from ‘I’m worried I’m not that great at sex’ straight to ‘oh so I’ll just tape her in her sleep then’. I mean who fathers these people!!

*rape