Yay - a solution to the queue for ladies - urinals

[HDDD]

The Peequal: will the new women’s urinal spell the end of queues for the ladies’?
Designed by women for women.
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jun/07/the-peequal-will-the-new-womens-urinal-spell-the-end-of-queues-for-the-ladies
Not for me. Ever.

@Grellbunt Yes, they could do with showing some better diagrams. I had imagined you just squat over it with trousers pulled down to your ankles?

@Congressdingo Yes, tricky one if child wants to run away- I hadn’t thought about that. It looks pretty small but no worse than the toilet cubicle that I used with my toddler the other day where I had to use it with the door fully open because I couldn’t fit my heavily pregnant self in there with him at the same time!! So I effectively blocked him from public view by standing in the way.
On the point of it becoming the norm- I really doubt it but I could be wrong. I just don’t see how it would be considered hygienic or acceptable for people to poo in these, are they gonna make these the norm for men to poo in too? Currently portaloos exist for men for that reason.
About the fully enclosed pissoir, at the last festival I was at they had completely open urinals for men but I guess the point is that there needs to be a distinction between what is acceptable at such an event versus a public place in town for example.

@CharlieParley I’ve used these too, and understand there is a difference. I guess your post makes me wonder what the actual target user or setting of these urinals would be. I was thinking young, probably at a festival or outdoor event and obviously non-disabled. Personally, I would happily use these and forgo some level of hygiene.
I think as the responses in this thread show, though, there’s no way people would use them in other public settings.
I just think they would have their uses in certain settings and that the idea should be embraced for those settings.

About the fully enclosed pissoir, at the last festival I was at they had completely open urinals for men but I guess the point is that there needs to be a distinction between what is acceptable at such an event versus a public place in town for example

At every biggish outdoor event I've ever been to the men have had loads of urinals with a dirty great big fence around it, so men could not be seen unless you were 12 feet tall or actually in with them ( and the obligatory porta loos, lines of them for all event goers)
Even an outdoor opera event had this. They were also carefully placed so going up the hill, you still couldn't see in. And yet we are expected to just lump it basically with our top half showing and tiny "cubicles" with zero privacy. They wont catch on and I sincerely hope everyone complains mightily if this ends up being all we get. And I pretty much guarantee if we use them often enough, it will be all we will get.

@SoMuchForSummerLove
It’s not much better than pissing out in the open I agree, and I understand completely those who don’t like the idea. I guess I am just more comfortable with that or even prefer the idea, to having to put my bottom on a dirty urine covered toilet seat at a festival. I think they are good idea but obviously the need for portaloos alongside is critical.
Difficult one with toddlers. Personal preference for me, but as i said in above post I’ve experienced cubicles I can’t even fit in with my son so this can’t be any worse

@Congressdingo Sounds like men’s urinals vary quite a lot in terms of privacy provided.

Certainly to make them a good choice they would need to put barriers up, or consider changing the design to make them with taller sides even. The ones I’ve seen in use already with she-wees had low sides but we’re enclosed by barriers and there was a security guard. I guess this would be up to the event organiser to ensure. People will vote with their feet and decide whether they’re worth it or not I suppose.
I think I have quite low privacy standards compared to many, and festival toilets are so disgusting it seems preferable to me as it’s no touch or low touch by comparison.

[quote Clove76]@Congressdingo Sounds like men’s urinals vary quite a lot in terms of privacy provided.

Certainly to make them a good choice they would need to put barriers up, or consider changing the design to make them with taller sides even. The ones I’ve seen in use already with she-wees had low sides but we’re enclosed by barriers and there was a security guard. I guess this would be up to the event organiser to ensure. People will vote with their feet and decide whether they’re worth it or not I suppose.
I think I have quite low privacy standards compared to many, and festival toilets are so disgusting it seems preferable to me as it’s no touch or low touch by comparison.[/quote]
I've never seen a mens set of event urinals without screening. They probably would not use them , may as well piss in a bush, more privacy that way, so the screening is to prevent them just pissing anywhere.

If you think about the day this is all we get at an event, how will we manage with periods? No where to wash hands, no bin, we still can't all crouch or hover so we will have to sit on them, and the very obvious sit and drop clothes on the most likely piss and shit soaked floor.
That's completely discounting disabled access and any form of privacy inside it, assuming its actually surrounded by a screen.
I could probably use it (would have to sit though) but I still dont want other women to see me thanks.

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer Yes definitely, a squat style toilet in a permanent structure would likely be more pleasant than this. But for an outdoor temporary solution I think it looks good.

It's poorly thought through imo. Yes, possibly a squat structure for festivals could be invented. Tbh I think a traditional urinal with separating walls would be a better shout than this. With a pad that lights up when it's in use and the entrance on the other side or something.
This strikes me às a brain fart.

Dreadful. I’d have to be desperate to use that

If I was desperate I’d use it.

@Congressdingo Yes, as I addressed in my original post, it’s not suitable for periods, poos, and those who wear other types of pads and therefore I agree that portaloos are needed alongside. It is not going to get to the point where this is all we have since that would disregard basic human rights.

It’s a urinal and so it’s designed to just be used for wees for people who are non-disabled. I don’t understand the arguments against it other than fears around how it would be implemented privacy wise and hygiene really.

Agree with every word you've written Clove76 and I'm durprised by the responses too, especially as I have seen calls, on this forum, for new solutions for women in situations like this.
Anyway, the women did their market research. Despite what the people replying here would or wouldn't do, I believe they will get a lot of use, and plenty of women will love them.

Yes, I tend to agree that in the context of a festival and with portaloos also available for the more elderly/menstruating/disabled etc the urinals are worth a shot. As I said, I never go to festivals, one reason being the sanitation arrangements or lack thereof, so I’m not the target audience.

I do love the bum guns, I'd campaign for their widespread use!

@Clove76

It’s a urinal and so it’s designed to just be used for wees for people who are non-disabled. I don’t understand the arguments against it other than fears around how it would be implemented privacy wise and hygiene really.

I don’t know how it is supposed to be used. That seems pretty basic. Are you supposed to remove your pants? Can it only be used if you are wearing a skirt?

Bum guns only work imo in hot climates that 'dry you off' quickly. English summer, yes. Winter, not so much.

Anyway, the women did their market research. Despite what the people replying here would or wouldn't do, I believe they will get a lot of use, and plenty of women will love them.

I have some experience with how market research is conducted (both as a participant and a market research assistant). In my view, the reactions here and the very many issues related to female biology and life not considered in the design tell me that there is an issue with the quality of the market research conducted.

I would not be surprised to hear that the designers specifically sought feedback from their ideal customer (this is common in market research), received glowing feedback from their ideal customer group and, because they are themselves part of that group, failed to consider the needs of other groups of women and so assumed their positive experience was directly transferable to other groups. Probably, as is only natural, because they don't face any of the issues we've listed above.

Certainly I could not imagine how hard it would be to go to the toilet with a sore knee. I managed it because I had time, privacy, and a cupboard to lower and raise myself. I could also clean up any mishaps in private. I know now, of course, but before that I couldn't imagine how a little pain could possibly turn into such a problem with lowering myself onto a toilet (let alone hovering over one).

And that is true for many other issues - if you're not pregnant, have never had a bloodbath of a period, incontinence issues, a physical disability, toddlers to accompany you and so on and so forth - it's easy to forget to consider what you don't know about.

As my friend found, who spent three years seeking patient feedback for a planned change of an NHS service, there is always someone you haven't thought of (in her case it was deaf and blind people, one of whom came to see her to suggest solutions).

And that's why you ought to widen your market research to include all kinds of women before you market your product to all kinds of women.

Yup,
Entirely possible the market research was undertaken at university and was aimed at young students.

To be fair this would be a large proportion of the crowd at a lot of music festivals. However it is if they decide that these are a great idea and roll them out to other places where portable toilets are used, where there are older people attending- the average country fair for example. Then there would be more problems.

I don't know. Even if the market research was that limited you'd still expect young people to raise some of the problems, like jumpsuits.

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer

I don't know. Even if the market research was that limited you'd still expect young people to raise some of the problems, like jumpsuits.

Agree.

I would not be surprised to hear that the designers specifically sought feedback from their ideal customer (this is common in market research), received glowing feedback from their ideal customer group and, because they are themselves part of that group, failed to consider the needs of other groups of women and so assumed their positive experience was directly transferable to other groups. Probably, as is only natural, because they don't face any of the issues we've listed above.

Yes, that is what I imagined too.

It's a microcosm of the problem that we face as women looking to improve the lot of women as a class - when you're young, fit and carefree you just don't have any inkling of how important the issues of biology are going to become later as you age, have babies, experience harassment etc.

Yes - give a dozen students a tenner for their feedback and you've technically done your market research.

They need to take a look at service design, customer empathy, and empathy mapping.

Just giving one days' thought to the various women who might be expected to use this would have yielded a much better result.

And the media reporting it as some sort of breakthrough is beyond irritating, as we'll now all be expected to shut up and be grateful.

The picture of the woman squatting is problematic. Whereas men stand up and only open a zip, she is hands on the ground and scarf trailing on the ground. Her dungarees are still on. She'd have to take them down and hold the bib and bottoms off the ground. Then, the straps would probably join the scarf trailing down in the pee splashed floor.

It is a nightmare. They may as well admonish women for not peeing through a penis. We'd be gender equal then, yay! and not have to get sodden trying to pretend this works for women just as well .