Noel Clarke sexual harassment allegations, suspended by BAFTA

[Cwenthryth]

www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/apr/29/actor-noel-clarke-accused-of-groping-harassment-and-bullying-by-20-women

🤬🤬🤬

Especially galling that BAFTA was seemingly made aware of this before giving him his very recent honour. I watched his acceptance speech and found it really moving in terms of celebrating a working class black man’s success in a historically white industry. Turns out he’s an (alleged) sexual abuser. Fucking great.

[quote lulugee]@TimeIsUp I'm not sure what the big deal is about the prank? Sorry but it was, a prank? Have we lost our sense of humour now. [/quote]
You're fucking kidding me.

Or, if you genuinely don't see anything wrong with how they treated her, I think you need to consider why that is and maybe get some help.

@Standrewsschool

“ I have no idea whether Noel Clarke is guilty of the allegations against him. I do know that everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence. True to the spirit of the age, however, Clarke is undergoing trial by media and has already been found guilty.” Paul Embery

Just saw this post on Twitter. Part of me agrees with it.

Innocent until proven guilty is for a court room. It has no bearing on whether a crime has actually been committed or not. He has a right to the presumption of innocence in a legal process. He has no right to you or I presuming he’s innocent.

With my abusers, none of them were ever arrested or prosecuted - does that mean they didn’t abuse me? Do I have to presume they’re innocent until a court proves otherwise? Give than only 1.6% of rape cases are even prosecuted, a figure that came out a couple of years ago IIRC, does that mean that almost all rapes technically never happened?

Standrewsschool he was in a position of power over young women. He had to be removed from that position until such time as all 26 (is it more now?) women can be found to have lied. It would be very wrong not to have done that. Also note how he has changed his stance from refuting the allegations to apologising if he has upset people and pledging to get help.

As others have said, that article in the Guardian would have been turned inside out by lawyers before it went public.

The problem is with women saying they think men taking their penis out (FFS, really?) on set is funny and ok is that they're not just saying THEY'RE ok with it, they're creating a toxic environment for women and girls who quite reasonably don't want this kind of behaviour. They are participating in rape culture.

I know it's hard, I know it's NOT their fault but at why don't they just not say anything? As soon as they start defending these men they're making the industry toxic for girls like my DD who loves drama, is good at it, and wants to be an actress.

At the moment my thoughts on this are 'over my dead body'.

Women don't come forward because they get employed on a project by project basis. And if you get a reputation for being 'difficult', you don't get called for the next job.

It's not trial by media. It's the only avenue women have to stop shits like NC.

Incidentally, it's also because of that lack of continuity that they're able to get away with it for so long. So there are rumours and mutterings but not enough to stop him.

And let's also not forget that the women he abused are replaceable. He is the star, he has the financial backing. Investors are much more interested in getting their production made successfully than they are in a couple of women complaining about sexual assault.

Look at Weinstein.

What disturbs me is how long that video recounting JB’s sexual assaults of colleagues (because that’s what it is, despite the laughter) has been there and nobody has cared. Why does it take this for someone to care? Can anyone imagine being subjected to this at work?

I did a drama degree, we often had visiting tutors who were actors, directors etc. I just wanted to make it clear that, despite the expectations people may have of what drama courses are like, there is no way on Earth that any of these tutors would turn up and ask anyone to take their clothes off. It categorically would not happen. This is not normal behaviour for those institutions. I’m not at all surprised that those in charge of the school were informed of it immediately, the students must have been shocked. I am appalled they didn’t remove him from the board immediately.

I know so many women who’ve left the industry early on because of this sort of behaviour. It’s completely normalised, nobody bats an eyelid including many women who keep schtum because they know if they don’t they’ll struggle to get their next job. Most workers on set in the film industry are freelance. Speaking up harms your career, no question.

This is the only place I can come and read people sticking up for the victims.
The comments under all the news reports and people on SM are overwhelmingly saying "innocent until proven guilty" and the age old "Oh they are just after his money!"
How can people read his tweets and see his own words and defend him?

Ive worked in a different industry a sports related one where this kind of behaviour is totally normal and I did love the banter and a lot of the times it was funny but it makes me feel sick all the times me and the girls and women I worked with have had to laugh off being uncomfortable for fear of being called boring, frigid, can't take a joke.
The first thing I was asked in training is can you take being yelled and shouted at because if you're soft there's no point you being here.

One girl had her fingers broken by a trainer having a laugh and going too far. She was sent home and nothing was ever said about it.
My friend turned down the advances of one of the popular lads and he turned everyone turned against her.

I didn't see until I got out how abusive it all was it was because you are in a bubble, the job is your life, you live on the job, you socialise with the people you work with.
I've been in an abusive relationship and looking back on that job it feels like the same thing.

The general reaction to the NC news is so depressing. It makes me despair.

The general reaction to the NC news is so depressing. It makes me despair.

I agree 😥

Really wish I hadn’t gone on that Reddit thread. Now arguing with some absolutely despicable people, including one who describes what he’s done as “pretty minor”, and one who seems to believe that sexual assault has only happened if you can prove it happens.

But it is just an allegation at this stage - he probably will be found guilty but isnt everyone jumping the gun - we are supposed to be innocent till found guilty.to pull episode 5 was just silly and this will ruin his career now whatever the outcome.

@Boomshakkalakka

But it is just an allegation at this stage - he probably will be found guilty but isnt everyone jumping the gun - we are supposed to be innocent till found guilty.to pull episode 5 was just silly and this will ruin his career now whatever the outcome.

As has been said previously, anyone facing allegations in a workplace would usually be suspended pending investigation. ITV have a reputation to protect and that's what they based their decision on. It doesn't matter what the legal status is. There was a lot of unproven but concerning evidence.

Deary me.

20 seperate women come forward and now another 7 and all someone worries about is an hour's telly programme that is available on catch up if they really want it.

What a total slap in the face it would've been to run it after they've put their reputations, their painful experiences out there, and then to be faced with him on primetime telly that night.

Totally the right decision

I think a lot of people forget that the entertainment industry is a different world - you can be successful and then not work for the next few years - you were maybe seen as difficult or you were just over-exposed. Even people who are known to be nice - eg like Mel Giedroyc - she has said at one point she just didn’t work for 5+ years, she just didn’t get offered anything or nothing worked out (I appreciate she’s a presenter not an actor). Your career can end for a really fickle reason, so in that world why shouldn’t your career end because you’ve been accused of inappropriate behaviour? (Particularly when they are credible and have been fact-checked and verified with witnesses etc.)

@Boomshakkalakka

But it is just an allegation at this stage - he probably will be found guilty but isnt everyone jumping the gun - we are supposed to be innocent till found guilty.to pull episode 5 was just silly and this will ruin his career now whatever the outcome.

There are horrible tweets and YouTube videos of him acting in sexually inappropriate ways toward women in addition to the allegations by 27 women.

And has been pointed out multiple times on this thread, "innocent until proven guilty" is a principle of law and this is not about a courtroom case. This is about his behaviour in a work environment where he was in a position of power.

In any other industry he would be suspended immediately. There is no reason for the entertainment industry to act differently. Pulling Episode 5 is a way of doing just this.

I am sorry for all of the innocent people who might lose their livelihoods over this and wish Mr Clarke had thought of the consequences of his actions earlier.

I mentioned earlier that through my job I know a few people in the acting profession (boast - I know someone who is currently in Line of Duty.) The sexism in the industry does grind women down. So many women are told not to even attempt an acting career because they don't have the looks to make it. One of my friends lost out on being cast in a US drama series because it was conditional upon her having breast enhancement surgery. This wasn't crucial to the role, they just told her outright that she wasn't sexy enough. The same actress appeared in a couple of episodes of another US drama where she was warned by several women on her first day on set never to be alone with the male star of the show, a situation which occurred and she found out why. A friend of that friend lost out on the role of a lifetime in another US drama series because the lead male (a famous British actor) vetoed her casting, saying she wasn't hot enough to play his wife. I know of middle-aged actresses who've been told by their agencies that they'll be dropped unless they have cosmetic surgery. It must constantly rub away at your security and self-esteem.

I wonder if the women who laughed at Barrowman's penis pranks really did find them funny or if they were conscious of being labelled a prude, a pearl-clutcher, an old misery, the one who made the atmosphere on set awkward when every else was having fun.

I ... wish Mr Clarke had thought of the consequences of his actions earlier.

I don't think it would have made any difference as people like him tend not to take any responsibility. I agree with your sentiment though.

People bleating about ‘innocent until proven guilty’ are thick as mince.

Does that mean that unless the victim can prove it, it didn’t happen?

Does that mean that as long as a perpetrator takes care to leave no evidence, they can keep right on offending and are to all intents and purposes ‘innocent’?

You don’t need a standard of beyond reasonable doubt to figure out whether a bloke is a sleazebag. Balance of probabilities will do.

If 26 women independently accuse a man of sexual assault but can’t ‘prove it’ are you still going to get in a car with him on your own?

If your answer is ‘no’, then you do understand why ‘innocent until proven guilty’ is a stupid argument.

In the clip with Noel Clarke exposing John Barrowman's penchant for sexually assaulting and indecently exposing himself Noel Clarke says to the audience "For the record, any men out there, do not try that at work. You will be fired and possibly go to jail". That truly says it all.

If people believe in innocence until proven guilty, that has to apply to those accused as many as much as to someone accused by one.

I agree that the evidence so far against Noel Clarke is pretty damning but there is nothing we can do at the moment except wait and see,

It shows how arrogant Clarke is, doesn't it? He is more or less saying "I can engage in sexually inappropriate behaviour at work and get away with it but you can't".

@EsmaCannonball

I wonder if the women who laughed at Barrowman's penis pranks really did find them funny or if they were conscious of being labelled a prude, a pearl-clutcher, an old misery, the one who made the atmosphere on set awkward when every else was having fun.

A bit like Christopher Eccleston whose values were criticised by some when he left because he didn't agree with the working environment.

’People bleating about ‘innocent until proven guilty’ are thick as mince.’

True

Bafta was placed in a really tricky place here.
They had announced the winner of this award, but NC had not received it yet.
Then they received allegations via an intermediary, with no names or verifiable details.
They had no legal grounds to suspend the award.
I don't disagree, exactly, but I would say that it took them two weeks to get round to appointing an independent person to look into it.

PS my number one 'I'd be devastated' man is Samuel West.