Feeling trapped abroad, overworked and isolated, how can I cope?

[Exquisitepeonies]

I will try to keep this shortish. I’m an expat in a European country. I moved here over a decade ago to get married. Three kids. I am unhappy. I hate everything about it here, the climate, the culture, the food, nothing tastes good.
I am struggling with the language and feel ashamed because I strongly believe you should assimilate and speak as well as you can, but I just can’t seem to manage it. I try, and people look blankly at me and speak English. I can’t attend language classes because of my job (long hours, can’t get into town on time.) I work for an international global megacorp type company who are working me to death. I often finish each day shaking with stress and it’s affecting my health. I have no friends. By which I mean none. Zero.
I have tried - I joined mum groups and they were just … awful. One or two queen bees and anyone who didn’t toe the line was mobbed. I don’t live anywhere I can meet people. School gate mums don’t talk to me. I’ve tried joining online groups and they’re full of people that are like the distillation of Reddit - hyper liberal, will not give any other opinion the time of day. I don’t really care about people’s politics, I think you should have your opinions and whatever, but people seem to rabidly go after anyone with even the slightest bit of wrong think. My husbands friends don’t like me. My in laws tolerate me as long as I’m perfectly behaved but they don’t like me either
I have grown more and more depressed, I’m losing weight, my hair is falling out and I’m anemic. I no longer see any future. I have begged my husband to move back to the uk and he won’t. We are barely speaking to each other. I am trying to be Vergil for the kids but one of them said the other night that she has never seen me happy and that broke my heart
If i get divorced I will lose my home and children and of course they are resident here so they stay here and I will be stuck here. I wouldn’t want to make them not see their dad anyway, so I am stuck.
I can’t afford a home anywhere near where we live and they go to school even though I have a decent job. I cannot afford to buy anywhere. Rental lists are three plus years long even on the grim bits of town. I am finding myself more and more shut down.
I look online and advice seems to be go out and socialise (with who exactly?) or go on antidepressive medication (nope.) if I go to the doctor and say I’m struggling they will probably lock me up. All the advice I see online is just … crap. I don’t HAVE a bunch of girlfriends to go out with. I don’t have TIME to do stuff because I work so many hours a day and do housework and the kids stuff.
How can I feel better? I think about growing old in this horrible place and it just fills me with despair. I have to function at work at a high level and at home (no bugger else does anything) . However nobody gives a toss and I have to sort myself out. Whining won’t help, and I have to pull my socks up and get on with it. What do, MN? Any advice that isn’t ’go on a spa day with your non existent girlfriends’ or ‘take drugs?’

Sending hugs you truly are in a very difficult situation, it reminds me of the lady that is stuck in New Zealand who posted on here a few years ago 😔

I agree. #op I’m deeply sympathetic to the situation you have described, but you’ve met every constructive suggestion with ‘that’s impossible / not achievable’.

You’re going to have to be brave and do the least impossible thing, because you can’t continue like this. It’s obviously breaking you. The action may be ‘imperfect action’ but surely one change even if it doesn’t solve all your problems is better than taking no action?

Perhaps write down all the suggestions…

sick leave
antidepressants
up sticks for the UK
resign
therapy

And list all the barriers each course of action presents. Then do the thing that feels least impossible.

Also, if you came back to UK, why would your children not be able to visit in the school holidays? Aren’t Sweden’s school holidays longer? You mention that this would be kidnapping. Surely maintaining contact with your children for weeks at a time with DP’s consent does not amount to kidnapping?

But I don’t want to see my children only in the holidays. What an awful way to live, and if I’m in England and they’re in Sweden no I cannot just take them out of the country without their dads’s permission - it doesn’t work like that - you can’t take children across borders without both parents say so. Divorcing would put me in a terrible place where I had no home, not living with my kids and unable to take them back to the uk if he doesn’t agree. I don’t want to see my kids a few weeks a year. I want to live with them. They’re my children. I love them. I have no leverage - what I need is leverage to try to move home as a family.
I have tried changing jobs. I have tried the societally acceptable pacification drugs. I have tried FB groups. I have even spoken to a therapist a few years back. I’ve tried the fucking mindfulness and the fucking journaling and all the other bullshit women are steered towards rather than action. None of these things changes the core issue, none will get me home with my children. I am stuck here, and my options are shut the fuck up complaining and deal with it or not. What I need is ways to do the former so I dont do the latter and take a permanent way out. If I’m not living with my children, I do t see any point in living

The urge to get rid of all your belongings is a massive red flag for very troubled mental health.

Your children would 100% rather have you some of the time instead of none of the time - so if you are saying your choice is giving up altogether or being miserable, that's not much of a choice. A mum you see some of the year who is happy and settled is possibly better than what you are able to do for all of you now.

You can't change your husband, you can provide him with the options. Is there any way to separate and just live in different parts of Sweden? If he is this intent on staying exactly where you are living and you are super intent on not living there... there's not a lot of grey area to work with in there unfortunately. Doing this for another 10 years doesn't seem manageable if you are already this low. So putting all that to the side, what can you do with the options you actually have?

Im also concerned that you are talking like someone who is ready to take your own life (my husband did 8 years ago) because you feel so trapped.

I know for sure that your children want you here. You know that too. My husbands death is something I can never make up for to my son.

Is there anything at all that would make you feel better, and more able to sleep tonight? I wonder if the Midsummer celebrations were actually making you feel worse at the weekend because this is the bit that is supposed to be great in Sweden but you don’t like it. It must be hard to sleep with so much light as well.

Another vote for some kind of UK connection - a British online therapist, a bloody book club, a walking companion, anything at all.

1. I know it’s out of the question for you, but supposing you lived in England and DP+DC lived in Sweden, (and I understand this isn’t an option for you but I’m trying to understand), would he withhold his consent to the DC visiting you in England? He sounds highly unreasonable if so.
2. A friend of mine lived and worked in Sweden but got the sack (from Spotify). Once he’d paid into the system via tax albeit for a short while, his entitlement to out-of-work benefit, even without children, was very fair. Generous even. If you can make no other changes at all, could you resign from this job and live a more no-frills lifestyle?
3. Is it possible to change location within Sweden?

Ok seen as things escalated a bit I will say there are always options you just might not be at the point to see them at the moment. For a start you would 100% be able to speak to an English doctor or therapist online you might find this more helpful. I don’t find the local doctors helpful at all where I am so I accept I have to pay. Do you have health insurance through your job ?
Do you know for certain that your husband wouldn’t move fight for custody of your children? You don’t say much about him what his attitude is like etc. Have you actually spoken to him and said I feel like my life isn’t worth living and if we don’t change things then the marriage is over and I want to return to the U.K. with the children?

@deepseaargyllfish Spotify don’t have a collective agreement, but their conditions exceed it (it’s been in the news here, they won’t accept union demands for a collective agreement.)there is no blanket set of working rights here - Sweden as a (previously) high trust society just ‘did the right thing.’ Now with international companies and globalism, that’s dead but the rules still aren’t there.
So - how it works here is that your company is supposed to have this collective agreement with the unions. Pretty much all Swedish companies do, If they do, you get the good bennies and all that.
Some companies (small tech types especially) have packages that exceed them and that’s part of how they attract staff. My company, being EvilGloboMegaCorp, has neither collective agreement nor a better package (and you will like it and be happy…) so for me, I’d get nothing day 1, 2 weeks of 80% up to a limit (which works out as much less than I need and is t anywhere near 80% of my actual wage) and then nothing. Past 2 weeks you need to be signed off for a specific reason, and you need to apply to the government for the sick pay, which isn’t much. They can, and often do, reject applications, especially for mental health. You have to be really, really unwell to get signed off with the mental stuff.
My company has a habit of firing people who take sick leave long term, and no, they’re not supposed to, and yes, people always say ‘they can’t do that! You have rights!’ But actually, no you don’t. They have the lawyers, you have nothing. You are a fungible economic unit, there to work and make the line go up.
Sick leave would need to be for something physical.
If I did get divorced I would need my whole wage. You cannot just rent a flat here. It’s not like the Uk. Almost all legal rentals are from huge companies, and you sit in line for a first hand contract. When you get that contract it will all be nice, clean and low ish rent. But you will sit in the queue for years. The queue where I am is three years in the roughest bit of town, ten in the centre. I think in the middle of Stockholm it’s 25 years - people sign their kids up at birth (yay socialism!)
There are no rentals near me, only houses. You can sometimes get a second hand contract (subletting) but it’s in a grey zone legally and you will struggle to find one, lots of scams etc. I couldnt afford a car.
(Remember this when people argue for rent control, this is what it leads to.)

I’m sorry things are so tough OP, it seems like there are no easy answers sadly - short of walking away from your kids which understandably you don’t want to do.

Just a small suggestion, could you stop doing things at home for your husband - stop doing his washing etc. Preserve your energy for you and your children and let him look after himself. He has been so unsupportive, and doesn’t seem to care that you are struggling. Just bide your time until the children are older.

Here’s another suggestion, not sure how feasible it would be - could you ask your parents for help financially to buy a place of your own? It may not be possible, but if they knew how much you were struggling maybe they could release some equity to give you a deposit or something.

I just don’t know what else to say @Exquisitepeonies but I really hope you can begin to find a way through and out of this situation.

I also don’t like the region where I’m living, nor my job!, but it’s in England and there are no children to consider, so it’s an easier situation.

Sometimes I think things have to get really desperate for change to be forced, but you sound as though you’re already there in all honesty. Is it worth speaking to a life coarch?

How is your relationship with DH, beyond the fact he doesn’t do his share with housework and childcare?

"If I’m not living with my children, I do t see any point in living"

That's your starting point then, your children @Exquisitepeonies this alone must offer a tiny modicum of motivation?

The fact that you seem to think, checking out of their lives, is even an option, surely signals and ring bells to you, that, in your desperation, you are really not thinking clearly?

Do you really feel that the only way out of your situation is to leave your children, without your loving care and gentle touch @Exquisitepeonies?

It is so very difficult to advise, as you seem to be so deeply entrenched and fragile, to the misery of it all, that you cannot see even a sliver of light. 🌻

there isn’t any light. This has been a worsening issue for a decade, and I’ve not managed to get any resolution. Kids will be fine, they’re young and resilient. I barely remember my childhood,
No my parents can’t help with deposits, they don’t have the money. Not from a rich background.
He does his share with the kids, he isn’t a bad father, he doesn’t hit me and as far as I know neither of us is cheating. Housework? Lol, Does any man? They say they do, but they don’t. it doesn’t matter I don’t have very high standards, it’s not like I expect everywhere to be perfect. I don’t really care any more. Need to get rid of more stuff, that seems like a good idea. Will be less cluttered and easier for everyone to deal with.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I probably shouldn’t have even asked this, I know there’s no easy answers and advice is useless when a problem is intractable . It’s my own fault getting into such a situation.

"Kids will be fine, they’re young and resilient" You cannot possibly know that.

They will not be fine @Exquisitepeonies

This is not an either or situation, please seek professional help

I understand where you’re coming from here. When you’ve thought and thought and thought about it to find solutions but there aren’t any and people try to help and say what about this and you’re like ‘no I’ve tried that thought, that wouldn’t work because…’ and then get told you’re too negative and are just naysaying all suggestions- but that’s because you’ve thought of them already…..
my suggestion for coping as you are is to try focussing on the future, imagining what could be, where you would like to be. And maybe taking any tiny steps that seem to potentially lead to a better future for you, on the understanding that you are playing the long game here, accepting that things are shit for now but you are there and present for your children and that’s what you’ve chosen, and one day you will be proud of yourself for putting up with the stuff you are putting up with. Value yourself, others around you have proven themselves to be bitchy or unkind, you are not like them. I’m sure you are also raising kind and thoughtful children, you should be proud of yourself.
Try to distract yourself, listen to music all the time rather than let your thoughts take over, more thinking about this is not going to help. Have you tried writing as a form of distraction, fiction, journaling, something to take your mind off it all.
I agree with a pp who suggested a consult with an English speaking online doctor. Get the anaemia sorted, get your physical health back in place. I think you need to guard your health both to get through your job etc, and in order to bide your time for your future. Well done for posting here about it, vent online, probably not to your DH as he sounds kind of selfish. As in, he doesn’t want to move because he wants to put the family first, keep the kids stable- but you are part of the family, you made the family! Children changing schools is really not that big a deal, he just likes his current set up, he is being selfish, but it is what it is. Your time will come, you will look back on this and marvel that you got through it. Sending best wishes.

Also, please don’t say ‘it’s my own fault.’ Shit happens, people can be disappointing, you acted in good faith, generously and flexibly agreeing to move to Sweden. Shame your husband can’t be similarly generous and flexible. Have you got Swedish citizenship? when the kids are grown up you could base yourself anywhere in the eu, sunshine, cheaper housing, driving distance to see the kids.

There’s no point seeking help, there is no help, there would be involuntary commitment if one expressed one was suicidal, and compulsory treatment, which is one of my worst fears. Especially in a system abroad.
Yeah I’m a citizen.
I’m not one for journaling, it feels self indulgent (are men ever told to journal? I dont think they are.) I know that kind of thing is what you’re supposed to do as a woman... just… it doesn’t speak to me.
There’s a kind of flatness about it all that precludes creative endeavour. I used to be very creative, now it’s all blank. I don’t want to draw or paint or knit or play. I have no desire or drive to do anything, and I just want to get rid of all the junk and paraphernalia associated with it.
I assume any doctor would be a mandated reporter, no? They’d snitch on you, and you’d end up committed.

But you feel actively suicidal. And you need to be safe. It doesn’t sound like your DH is very nurturing so he cannot be relied on to look after you.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been sectioned. And it’s not nice and it’s a last resort. But it also saved my life. And it meant those around me got involved in a plan to keep me safe. People listened to what was going on.

Yea fair enough I wouldn’t be one for journaling either, would always feel insecure that someone might read it. But I love writing fiction, all the real life shit becomes useful in fleshing out characters and stories.
Op you sound so exhausted and like you’ve totally lost your confidence and are just in shock at it all. Can you take a holiday, just get away from work and go on a holiday that isn’t going home to Uk to visit etc? Maybe with dh and kids, just to be somewhere different? With being an expat and often holidays being the hard work of a trip back home, that can leave you reeling with homesickness?

If moving to the UK with your kids is not possible right now, what is one area of your life that you could change, with a plan and support?

Retrain for a new job?
Squirrel money away to help you leave?
Online therapy in English to help you find your strength?

In an ideal world what would happen ? Write a list from best to worst case scenario and share it with us 🥰

OP I've been trapped to the point of despair in a job I saw no way out from, so I completely understand what you're saying, especially as I was a single parent and could not afford to drop my income even a little bit. However, as soon as I actually took the plunge (in my case Covid hit and gave me a push to look elsewhere) it turned out that there were in fact many jobs out there that paid the same or even more and didn't make me feel suicidal. I would honestly start with the job, as that's the easiest thing to change in your situation.

@xelaM If it’s not too intrusive, what kind of work was it that drove you to despair?

Law firm 😂 but it was a combination of that particular firm (a really horrible environment) and working for many years for one very large client whose management and demands kept changing. I was also romantically involved with someone at work who was playing awful mind games with me and the combination of all of these factors made me honestly feel suicidal. But because I was there for years, had a very narrow specialism, and didn't think I could promise enough of a client following - I didn't think I could find anywhere else that would pay as much.

Hello,
I am from Sweden, and you are not the only one who has said that it's not the easiest country to move to. It's great that your are learning the language. Do I understand right, that your husband is Swedish? Can you decide that you try to speak more Swedish at home? Perhaps choose a day of the week that is "Swedish day" for everyone in the family.

Like many of the previous posters have mentioned, your health is very important, and people have already given advice on that.

Are you and your family interested in spending time in the nature? Sweden has a wonderful nature, and it's for the most part pretty available to the public. The organisation Friluftsfrämjandet arranges lots of activities all year around both for children and for families. Or just go out in the nature on your own, or with your children. The nature is so beautiful, especially this time of the year!

What interests/hobbies does your children have? Can you volunteer at one of their activities to meet some people?

Perhaps have a read on the Living overseas-board here on Mumsnet.
There are some older posts there that describe similar feelings about living abroad.

I wish you all the best, and I hope that you will feel better soon!

Hello OP, we are really sorry to hear you are feeling this way.

We hope you don't mind, but when these threads are flagged up to us we usually add a link to our Mental Health resources: www.mumsnet.com/i/mental-health-webguide. You can also go to the Samaritans website or email them on [email protected].

Support from other Mumsnetters is great and we really hope you will be able to take some comfort from your fellow posters, but as other MNers will tell you, it's really a good idea to seek RL help and support as well.

We also like to remind everyone that, although we're awed daily by the astonishing support our members give each other through life's trickier twists and turns, we'd always caution anyone never to give more of themselves to another poster, emotionally or financially, than they can afford to spare.