in your opinion/if you have it or have family members, friends, colleagues or a partner/ex-partner with it, does BPD deserve the negative representation it often gets as a condition, in the popular media and also in real life ?

[Nonoanddefintelyno]

I read somewhere that bpd can be compared to having full thickness, raw burns all over ones body as a representation of how it feels for people with BPD to try and get through a day where the otherwise smallest social interaction, look or body language change, can cause genuine alarm, fear of abandonment or provoke intense anger in someone with the condition. I imagine it must be really shitty to deal with as the sufferer and i generally feel like virtually everyone with BPD has developed the condition because they have been exposed to or have had to experience a higher number of traumatic life events compared to the general population. Ive often heard BPD be described as the form of PTSD that never actually got diagnosed so it just turned into BPD because it wasnt recognized that it started as PTSD initially

Not really dbt is an option but its a postcode lottery to whether your area offers it.

I have been lately dealing with family members with NPD and have, sadly, become quite educated on the disorder. This is someone very close to me and their mother, I am unsure as to whether they are both narcissists or whether he has learnt traits from his mum. This might be the case with your friend and their father.
There are huge crossovers between NPD and BPD, both are very unstable in their sense of self, extremely fragile egos, both very emotionally volatile, both fearing abandonment and find relationships extremely difficult. I am currently in counselling, trying to deal with the trauma that these people in my life have left me with. My counsellor told me that BPD is much more commonly diagnosed in individuals, whereas no one gets diagnosed with NPD (despite it affecting up to 1:50 people) due to the massive stigma, the fact that they are unable to self-reflect (so would never seek help in an honest and open way) and the fact that diagnosing them leads to them disengaging from therapy. The difference between the 2 is that narcissists are very over the top, grandiose (always the best, always needing to outdo others ) and the bit that has destroyed me has been the complete lack of accountability, always someone else to blame. Never their fault.
I would never be with anyone who showed any signs of any type of personality disorder again. Extremely emotionally dangerous to be on the receiving end of.

I would say that BPD does deserve negative representation- 40 years ago there was no information on this or any other MH conditions so it was very difficult to deal with horrible behaviour. I recall going to the local library reference section and finding nothing!

One family member had a MH crisis and engaged successfully with treatment - had a bi-polar diagnosis. Even at their worst they took accountability and were kind and caring.
Two in-laws display all the characteristics of BPD/NPD and continually created drama/chaos and thrived on manipulating, lying, playing people off against each other. Neither could hold down jobs due to their nastiness. One admitted she could be vindictive the other felt there was something not right with her but thought people should be nice to her and make allowances. However, neither would ever take any responsibility or attempt to work with family members, just carried on being frankly, abusive. We reached the point where we were no longer willing to engage in order to protect our DCs.

Agree. I have experience with friends having it. I had to pull back because it was utterly exhausting and affecting my own mental health. A good friend almost had her life ruined because her boyfriend kept pulling her down with him. Those who engage with therapy might be a different story, and I do have some sympathy. But I stay clear now.

There is, as some others say, a crossover with NPD.

Id never expect sympathy from any victim towards any perpetrator. Ever.

However, you cannot, just cannot, label every single person with a diagnosis as being "the same". You couldn't do it for any other illness, so why BPD?

There are many, many people with BPD for whom recovery is an option. With the right care, support and focus thru can, and do, love normal, fulfilling and productive lives where they don't harm anyone..

There isn't a single other illness where people are allowed to be marginalised and discussed as though they are less than. As with all illnesses it is different for everyone, and I am heart sorry, genuinely for those that have been victims and the abusers used BPD as an excuse. But it is just that, an excuses, not a cause.

I have a BPD diagnosis but I consider myself pretty much recovered now after years of psychodynamic therapy. It is a maladaptive personality that develops due to trauma. I’ve also since been diagnosed with ADHD and I’d say I have some narcissistic traits.

When I was in the thick of BPD behaviour I was at times abusive. Only ever in romantic relationships though. I’ve good good friends and a successful career. I’d chase after people who treated me badly/had their own unresolved mental health issues then become reactively abusive when things inevitably didn’t work out. I still have a very vindictive streak and low empathy but I’ve been in a very calm and healthy relationship for several years now. It sounds horrible to say but it works because I’m the one in charge. My partner is the opposite of me - calm, passive, diplomatic, empathetic, no unresolved trauma or mental health issues. So in summary yes I’d say it does deserve the reputation.

@JustFrustrated

BPD is not a illness.

I have been told by doctors in the past that I likely have EUPD (a contemporary name for BPD). I also believed this for a long time. I was refused a diagnostic process and therapy on the NHS and told to return a few years later when I was twenty-five. Knowing the suicide risk of untreated EUPD and my own instability, I chose not to wait and sought out private DBT so that I could stop emotionally hurting myself and those around me.

In hindsight, I don't know if I ever did have EUPD. I know technically people can recover from EUPD following effective therapy, but years of counselling have shown me that my symptoms were more likely a mix of autism, ADHD, and complex trauma. What I thought to be the EUPD symptom of "splitting", my worst symptom and the most damaging aspect of my poor mental health, is just as easily explained as the ADHD symptom known as rejection-sensitive dysphoria. Years of consistent therapy have allowed me to cope with perceived rejection, control my extreme emotions and rewire some of my trauma responses; I don't think if I were tested for EUPD now that I would fit the criteria.

(I have one friend, officially diagnosed a few years ago, who I think would still fit the criteria. Despite that she's doing really well these days, handling her symptoms far better, and is also in the process of being assessed for autism.)

That's all to say, I think there needs to be a lot more understanding of EUPD, what causes it and how it affects people. I believe such understanding would naturally break through the stigma, which in turn would allow EUPD sufferers to access better care and benefit from a more accepting social environment. I know there are some with EUPD who are abusive, and even more who are difficult to maintain healthy relationships with, but I don't think anyone should assume a person to be abusive from a diagnosis alone. My friends who have been diagnosed are far more at risk of hurting themselves than others, and I am proud of all of them for the difficult times they've fought through and the efforts they have made to improve their symptoms.

Im sorry your ex was such a scumbag. But saying people with BPD, a mental health issue, are not worth bothering about is wrong. I know you said you don’t care what anyone thinks, and that of course is fine, but then I also don’t care if you think I’m out of order for saying that your comment was nasty.

So a lot of people with BPD then? As not all of them are abusive

Of course its an illness its a mental illness

I do know someone with BPD. We are NC with them. They caused massive issues in the family. I agree there definitely seems to be a crossover with NPD; this behaviour was what caused the most issues.

Obviously everyone can present differently, but it really was impossible to be round this person. You couldn’t just be a neutral bystander. They had to drag you in to the conflict.

I strongly suspect that this thread was started as a result of someone watching the recently screened second series of "the Jury, Murder Trial". It is not an accurate portrayal of most people with BPD, however I knew as soon as I saw the episode that there would be an influx of this sort of media discussion.

To anyone with a BPD diagnosis who is reading this thread, I am so sorry you have to read this bullshit. Please know that not everyone believes it *

I have reported this thread.

Comments made so far:

"They deserve the reputation to protect other people."

" people with BPD are abusive"

"all the usual BPD bullshit threatening suicide and all the rest"

"Run for the hills"

"Manipulating, lying, playing people off'

"Can't hold down jobs because of their nastiness"

I have reported this thread.

For clarity. I work in mental health services. Some of the people I work with have diagnoses of BPD and suffer from the type of prejudice and stigma evidenced in the above comments. It needs to stop.

In summary:

BPD / EUPD is a highly controversial name for a highly controversial diagnosis that is given to people who experience things like a fear of abandonment, unstable relationships, extreme emotional turbulence and disconnection.

To the person saying it is not a mental illness, You may want to educate yourself:

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/borderline-personality-disorder-bpd/about-bpd/

It is a controversial diagnosis because

(a)It lacks scientific reliability and validity:The current diagnostic criteria allow for 256 different combinations of symptoms that could lead to a diagnosis.

(B) It carries incredible stigma, as evidenced by some of the ill-informed comments in this thread.

It is disproportionately slapped on young women who have experienced severe childhood abuse and trauma,

Women account for 70% of patients

Many of these women later go on to receive autism diagnoses. It's all very well saying "they are very different conditions" - but in reality, the overlap is sufficient that many people, particularly women, are misdiagnosed. Were the above comments made in reference to autistic people, all of Mumsnet would be up in arms - and rightly so.

Here are some comments from Kier Harding and Dr Jay Watts, experts in BPD. Articles can be found via Google, but to summarise using direct quotes:

"attempts to cope with extreme distress and discomfort from sensations that don’t trouble people without a trauma history are completely misunderstood and often judged."

An Australian review of stigma of BPD describes negative beliefs about young people with BPD, including erroneous beliefs about trustworthiness and dangerousness, and that they are ‘bad, not ill’.

The Welsh charity Platform has an archive of awful experiences people with a BPD diagnosis have gone through, but the things I repeatedly hear about are:

1 People having wounds stitched in hospital without anaesthetic,

2 All visits to the GP seen as attention seeking so serious illnesses are missed and pain relief not given

Marsha Linehan is the creator of DBT, the therapy most often prescribed for people with BPD diagnosed. Linehan says:

“I tell my patients if you end up in the Emergency Room for a medical disorder for gods sakes do not tell them you meet criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder. Do not tell anybody. You’ll be treated differently"

65 clinicians were asked to watch a video of a woman presenting with 'panic disorder'. They then had to rate her presenting problems and prognosis. A third were just given her presenting problems, a third were given this plus a description consistent with 'BPD' and a further third that and the label 'BPD'. Those who were told the woman had a 'BPD' label were significantly more likely not just to give the woman a poor prognosis, but to actually describe the panic shown in the video in worse terms."

In essence, inaccurate and harmful stereotypes of BPD serve to maintain the stigma attached to BPD diagnosis. It needs to stop. Thread has been reported.

Lots of good responses on here. I would say that true BPD, as outlined in the DSM, left untreated, can cause so much harm and chaos in families and relationships. I speak from experience. Watching it roll through the next generation is the hardest part. I also believe that people can change given good mental health care, but this is uneven and not always accessible.

Agree, have a sibling with this. It can be impossible at times and many times over the years have had to step away

They have very few friends because of it, difficulty holding down jobs or attending work.

Difficult all round, really.

interesting thread and comments

I’ve worked with several people who have diagnoses of BPD. Many of the issues they’d bring to me were similar but overall, the amount of attention they needed and their behaviour and treatment of others in the office, has been very difficult to manage.
One employee repeatedly tried to contact me at all hours of the day and night. She made up stories about me. She wanted to tell me how she was feeling via a coloured spreadsheet every hour.
She repeatedly told me of her 7 main symptoms, an uncontrollable urge to be violent being her main one was extremely difficult to deal with. Very threatening.
Another employee presented with almost exactly the same issues. I can deal with most things at work but this was a miserable time.

My ex emotionally told the Court he has BPD after multiple Hearings where he insisted vehemently that I had it (I don't). His psychotherapist who admittedly hadn't seen him for nearly 6 years confirmed to the Court in writing that he was actually a diagnosed narcissist with an antisocial personality disorder and possible ADHD that they were in the process of determining before he cut contact with the psychotherapist.
I wouldn't be surprised if old BPD was a catch-all for complicated diagnosis.

I agree with PP its often misdiagnosed but the first thing I think of is collateral damage.

Of the first hand experience I've had with actual bipolar....

Men present/manifest differently to women.

both of the 2 men with bpd feature in my "top 5 worst men I've ever known" list. The world was a worse place for them being in it.
i couldn't say the same extreme level for the women, yes their lives are chaotic, they are "okay people"....or better at mediation compliance? however they are also extremely difficult especially when off meds which happens frequently for men and women.
In general I limit contact severely with them.
The men are both out of my life now - thank fuck!

In all instances people around them were collateral damage. I cannot stress the level of damage.
One was my old boss and at one point 5 out of a team 6 were medicated due to him. He gave me my first ever panic attack.

My father had classic bpd and based on my childhood if either of my children dated someone with it I would advise they run for the hills.
And if my children had it id be very clear they should not have children themselves EVER due to the damage they would unintentionally inflict.

I think the misdiagnosis issue may be more of a historical problem. 20+ years ago psychiatrists would see a young woman with treatment resistant depression, a lot of social anxiety and some issues around substances and SH (which in my case was very much a secret and not for attention) and go straight to BPD. Nowadays there is so much more awareness of ND diagnoses. It would be interesting to see if BPD diagnoses in the young have declined as ND ones have increased.

I just don't see how it can be right for someone like me who is in a 20+ year relationship, has many friends of 20+ years and hasn't had involvement with MH services or medication for 15 years. I know the fact I'm going on about it could in itself be a sign of something, but it's a really horrible label to carry.

BPD is a fuck about and find out disorder. I would advise anyone not to bother even trying and I stick by that. It’s sensible advice not to play fire. Just leave the relationship and look after yourself will always be my advice.

I have a middle aged ds with RCBPD, it took 10 years to get a diagnosis .. during which time he was medicated and sedated.. he's never had a relationship,he's highly intelligent with a high IQ..he became severely depressed,we had suicide attempts..it's been hell. He's trying very hard to pull his life around,now very fussy about his diet,does 90 minutes yoga every day and power walks and cycling on the days he is able to leave his flat.
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Never heard of the programme.

I hope the thread stands. Anywhere that someone suffering in a relationship with a person with BPD can look for real world support and advice is so valuable. Threads like this gave me the strength to leave. Thank God. Before that I felt so alone and confused.

All cluster B personality disorders are dangerous.

The quotes you’ve picked out from this thread are all textbook examples of BPD behaviours.

Do you know it's possible, and actually not unheard of at all, to get diagnosed with BDP without ever entering or being in crisis?

That some, namely women because of the way it exhibits in women, get a diagnosis after years of garden variety treatment and it'spurely because they know they're different and something is wrong that they engage and push?

But yeah let's call them all scum and don't deserve lives. Fuck the ones that try hey? Fuck the ones who implode and dont explode?

I see some horrific behaviour apologised for, or accepted, because of ASD/Dementia/other illness or disability that cannot be helped.

My colleague was raped and beaten by a man with LD and ASD, based on that am I to assume that anyone with LD and ASD should be avoided because they're all evil? No, because that's absolutely absurd.

I am deeply, deeply, sorry for anyone who has been hurt by someone with BPD. And you can avoid any relationship you want for any reason, but saying avoid everyone with it is generalisation and sweeping statements.

I know some people with BPD and you wouldnt know they had it until they disclose it. You just wouldn't. Because they spend so much time ensuring they regulate and prevent crisis.

There isn't a single other illness where people are allowed to be marginalised and discussed as though they are less than. As with all illnesses it is different for everyone, and I am heart sorry, genuinely for those that have been victims and the abusers used BPD as an excuse. But it is just that, an excuses, not a cause.

That is simply not true all of the other cluster B personality disorders carry equal if not more stigma compared to BPD, it is not singled out particularly.

I think the real problem from what I have encountered with the condition is the lack of empathy when triggered coming from the condition means that when triggered the person literally cannot engage with the relational harm that they themselves are causing and they also feel like they are the person being wronged. It is almost delusional.

That is what breeds the stigma, a bit like swopping victim and offender, the DARVO narcissists do.

If you have any personality disorder then that is extremely difficult but if you are harming others then you need to stop seeing yourself only just as a victim and start the extremely hard work of internal change. That rigidity around victimhood and those pervasive behavioural patterns are what need to change not society’s perception of the harm a person causes. That is the wrong way around.