Friend's children have MH issues that affect our friendship

[Glossie]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I think probably only those with experience of MH issues in the family and friendships will really be able to appreciate the situation.

Three years ago I got talking to Lou at an event I was attending for work. We hit it off. She had recently moved to my city and so we arranged to meet for coffee. We're interested in similar things, we share the same sense of humour and we started to become good friends.

Our lives are very different. I have a long-term partner: Lou was recently divorced after a long marriage. I have no children and she has three young-adult children, two of whom live at home with her. Her 17-yo daughter hasn't attended school for several years, self-harms and is receiving psychiatric support pending diagnosis. Lou tends to bring her with her wherever she goes and so her DD often comes to our meet-ups. Unfortunately DD is so fragile that her needs have dominated a lot of our plans. Things get cancelled or changed at the last minute or DD gets triggered by something and we have to leave the cinema or the cafe or the place we're in. On top of this her son was diagnosed as having Borderline Personality Disorder last year and has given up university and returned to live at home. Inevitably a lot of our conversation and contact has revolved around her children and the various crises they go through. I've been as understanding as I can. Her DS has made several suicide attempts and on each occasion Lou's called me and asked for help to get him to hospital in the early hours of the morning or to sit with her DD while she takes him in. Our friendship is now dominated by her children.

A few weeks ago she was very stressed about something and sent me a long, complex What's App message which I didn't spot for a couple of hours. When I read it I got the wrong end of the stick and so my response wasn't what she'd expected. She messaged back telling me how unhelpful I'd been, then told me that she needed space and blocked me on What's App.

I sent a text explaining my misreading of the message and saying that I could understand that she was stressed and needed some space, hoped things were okay with the children and left it at that. I heard nothing for around six weeks and frankly began to feel quite relieved to be free of all the distress.

Today I was away at a festival when I got a message from her asking me to come to her house urgently. Her son had smashed a window and hurt himself and she needed to get him to hospital for treatment. I called her, explained I wasn't in the area and we had a brief chat about who else she could ask for help.

I've now had another message asking me to meet her and her daughter for coffee and cake on Monday. It's friendly, as if she didn't go silent on me for weeks. She seems to assume that everything's okay and that things can go back to how they were. I don't want to do that.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? How can you be supportive to a family in this very difficult position without ending up feeling that their needs dominate everything? Is it possible to have a real friendship in these circumstances?

I think you've answered your own question, you have been relieved to not be involved with her dramas for the last 6 weeks. Block her and be happy

You could have been describing my situation (my teen DD, no school, MH issues, suicide attempts, I'm also single parent). I have a good friend who I met when we both started a hobby at the same time.

She is one of the most empathetic and wonderful people I know. In fact I often go to her for advice about my teens / ex husband before I would do some of my friends with kids.

It feels like a healthy balanced relationship and she massively looks out for me and has done so many kind things for me over the years as she knows how hard it is being in my shoes. I am very grateful I met her.

That said - I make sure that there is a balance in our friendship. She has her own life, incredibly stressful job, family issues etc and these all get as much airtime as my problems do as I know they are important to her and I really care about her. I would also not ask anything of her that would put her out too much (even though she would probably do it) as I don't want to be a burden.

I never have too high expectations of her or ignore her if she didn't meet them!

I am lucky enough to have another amazing friend - also single no kids who is my next door neighbour. I have asked her to drive us to A and e a few times in the middle of the night and she has done that with no questions asked. Again though, our friendship is v much a 2 way thing and we have supported each other through many things over the 16 years we have lived next door to each other.

It sounds like your friendship is one way traffic. What do you feel that you get from the relationship? I would never ignore a friend for that amount of time in the first place but if I did, I certainly wouldn't expect to pick things back up with no apology or acknowledgment.

If a clear and honest conversation can't be had and for her to understand where you are coming from then It sounds like you aren't getting much from your friendship with her.

Is there no middle way? I feel like a real shit saying that it's been a relief to be out of the drama and distress, but you're right, it's true. I can't see a way of maintaining a friendship with her that doesn't include her children, and they dominate everything. I don't know what to do.

It all sounds very one sided. You help her as a sounding board, support her, presumably take her kids to hospital at all hours or sit with the ones at home. It's admirable but what are you getting from the friendship? If you needed something would she be there for you? Or would she just say she has too much on her plate?
I think her going quiet on you is the excuse you need to distance yourself. It's telling that she's only popped up again when she needs something.
I would advise her to get professional help with her dc (who do sound very difficult) and try to be otherwise engaged for future meet ups for a little bit.
There isn't really a middle ground when your lives are so different. You can hardly say 'yes I'd love to meet for a coffee but don't bring your daughter'.

I've now had another message asking me to meet her and her daughter for coffee and cake on Monday. It's friendly, as if she didn't go silent on me for weeks
they want something from you. They see you as a service who is there to meet their needs as they are all so much more special and important than you. Hence the punishment of silent treatment when you dared not meet their demands of absolute compliance. She's an arrogant shit.

And just to add. The only time my friend sees my DD is if she comes round to mine and it's a quick hi/ bye chat. I totally understand that having her DD there curbs the opportunity for chats on both sides. Mine wouldn't want to come anyway but if she did, I would make sure that there were plenty of opportunities for it to be just us two.

Her DD sounds very much like mine but maybe she doesn't feel safe unless she's with her mum. Do you feel that's the case or does her mum willingly invite her along every time?

Either you tell her that the friendship seems to have run its course after what happened in April etc

Or you have an excuse each and every time and mute her so you read it after the event

@lemonsaretheonlyfruit Thank you for your response. I'm sorry to hear that this situation is familiar to you. Such a difficult position to be in.

When we first met and were doing the getting-to-know you thing, Lou's DD was going through a good period and her DS was at university, so although we talked about them they weren't the only topic of conversation and it felt like a mutual relationship. Both her children then seemed to spiral and and it felt as if almost every day there was some new emergency that needed attending to, and somewhere along the way things got skewed and I began to feel more and more that my role was as family support person, if that makes any sense. I think Lou's own mental health is negatively affected by it all — whose wouldn't be? That probably goes some way to explaining the silence and blocking.

I can't see it getting any better quickly. I sometimes wonder whether both children are competing for their mum's attention, but I'm no expert.

When we get together my ordinary everyday sort of life doesn't hold a candle to the drama and intensity of hers. She isn't in the right space to talk about books or films or politics or whatever. When her family life is so full of heightened emotion and life and death stuff, my mundane wittering about my partner or holidays or work or whatever seems ridiculous.

I'm really tired: had a great day out. I need to sleep now and see if things look different in the morning. Thank you. And good luck with your daughter. I'm glad you have support.

unfortunately, this. stop being their support human being.

What do you want to do? It really is your choice? You shouldn't worry about what you think you "should" do.

Her DD sounds very much like mine but maybe she doesn't feel safe unless she's with her mum. Do you feel that's the case or does her mum willingly invite her along every time?

In the past her DD was a bit more independent and could be left at home on her own, but she's become obsessed with the idea that someone might break into the house and attack her if she's on her own. She doesn't actually want to be out, she'd rather she and her mum stayed at home all the time, but she does come out if her mum is going. Her brother isn't reliable and the two of them seem to set each other off. It really does seem to be the perfect storm within the family. It's a time when Lou needs help to cope, but when she has no resources to maintain a normal friendship. Which is why I feel I ought to hang on in there, even though any expectation of anything approaching an ordinary mutual friendship is out of the question at the moment. Realistically, I can see this situation persisting for years. Probably I need to decide on some boundaries.

I'm tired and rambling.

Very difficult situation. It doesn’t seem like she can leave her DD at home and it’s probably one of the only times they are able to get out. This poor woman is clearly in the trenches and needs support. The mental health service is completely unfit for purpose.

That being said, it's important to prioritise your mental health and ensure that any relationship you maintain contributes positively to your life. As the saying goes- you can’t pour from an empty cup.

You have become the “go to” person in emergencies, but she went 6 weeks without you and seemingly her children’s health didn’t start to deteriorate as you became friends. Could you suggest coming round to hers, so her DD is safe and you can talk to your friend without her DD being present to the conversation?

I think there’s a conversation that should be had. If you don’t want to be friends with her, that’s completely ok, but I would do it kindly, perhaps tell her you care about her, but you need to establish boundaries for your own well-being. It maybe that perhaps you’re not the friend that can be available for emergency assistance all the time, but you’re a friend that rings every few weeks, or meet up every now and then. Ask her if this level of friendship is something she wants? She may say no, if she agrees, see how you feel with that level of friendship, if it’s still not working out, reduce contact, suggest longer between meet ups and it will slowly fade away.

Unfortunately some people with kids see people with no kids as having endless amounts of time and energy for all their problems. I agree with pp they see you mainly as a support human and if you don’t perform your role accordingly you get cut out.

A few weeks ago she was very stressed about something and sent me a long, complex What's App message which I didn't spot for a couple of hours. When I read it I got the wrong end of the stick and so my response wasn't what she'd expected. She messaged back telling me how unhelpful I'd been, then told me that she needed space and blocked me on What's App.

This would have been a friendship ender for me. Even if she needed “space’ there was no reason for her to tell you how unhelpful you were and especially to block you. That is massively rude

Genuine question - do you usually let friends treat you like this? I couldn’t imagine letting a friend just block me for not being “helpful” enough when I’ve already done so much then slipping back into my life with no apology.

I have two children 15&12 like this, it's so hard balancing it and having a life too, and I have a loving husband! I personally think either be her friend and help her when possible, or just cut ties if you can't deal with supporting her.
Does her ex help her out?

Genuine question - do you usually let friends treat you like this?

No, but no one else I know is living with the daily threat that one or other of their children will accidentally or intentionally kill themselves or do something catastrophic. I'm in my 50s now and I've had friends who were ill or dying, friends who were bereaved or under great stress for one reason or another and I've tried to cut them some slack. None of us behaves as well as we might when we're struggling.

Does her ex help her out?

Her ex has moved abroad and his only contact with the children is by video-call as far as I'm aware. The children don't seem to want to have much contact with their father.

I really have to go to bed now. I'll come back in the morning.

Fair enough OP, I take your point.

Personally, I know people going through various situations and none of them have treated me like that but if they did, I wouldn’t tolerate it, but we’re all different.

When I was much younger like early 20s I did excuse poor behaviour from friends on occasion if they were going through a rough time, until I realised these people managed to control themselves around certain people they respected more.

edited to add : The ones they respected more hadn’t done half as much for them as I had or been around as much for them.

The issue was they just saw me as a lowly scapegoat for them to take things out on.

I think you do know what to do. You need to end the friendship. Her expectations are too high, too unboundaried. Her own mental ill health is on display in terms of how she is manipulating you.

You sound lovely and you don’t have to be responsible for this person. It’s control, and you can end it.

Friendship should not be all one way.
Your relief during the 6 weeks of (punishment) silence suggests that you were not getting anything much from the connection yourself.

If you want to continue the 'friendship' as a service - that is a choice but you probably need stronger boundaries so that your aid is no more than you are able/willing to give.

I don't think you can reasonably expect someone with suicidal children to not have the children dominate.

Either be supportive - which means understanding the children are going to dominate because they both seem to be in crisis - or let the friendship go, she's got so much going on and she's dealing with it alone.

I think if you do want middle ground then you have to tell her, you love her as a friend but you aren’t her therapist and being blocked for not being helpful enough isn’t a good friend either and friendship is a two way street……

If she takes it badly which I think she will then it’s not a friendship worth keeping if she acknowledges that she has pushed the boundaries on the friendship then you can start a healthier friendship

I know it will sound as if I'm a selfish and uncaring person but I just cannot/will not be the person that someone with a chaotic and stressful life can lean on. I love my friends and will help any of them out in a genuine crisis but I've had friendships where their lives are high drama and I back off. It's just not something I'm prepared to do. This is how I protect my own peace and mental health.
I would suggest you do the same. Be less available. Occasional coffee is fine. Rushing to her rescue is not.

ETA I was 'punished' by a formerly very close friend with the silent treatment for around 6 weeks once for an offence of a similar type to yours and when she got in touch to graciously allow me to make it up to her I declined and we never spoke again. It's cruel and manipulative behaviour and I don't regret it. Distance from her allowed me to see how she thrives on conflict and drama and I'm well out of it.

It’s a very sad situation, but I wonder whether she’s leaning on you so much, because she’s burned bridges with more longstanding friends due to this type of behavior? Expecting support in every emergency and blocking people when they don’t behave exactly as you want is bound to damage relationships. You may feel very sorry for her situation, but she can’t treat you like this.

Its a fine line to walk, snd maybe she can’t accept it, but it would do her good to try to carve out one hour, or one relationship, where she focused on herself and a healthy friendship.

She has turned you into an extension of her family and that is not ok.

If I wanted to be friends with Lou I think I'd put up with the 17 year old daughter coming on outings (including the cancelling and changing) because that's part and parcel of Lou's set up, and difficult to change. It sounds as if she has an unusually difficult life at the moment and, as her friend, I'd try to accommodate that.
However some of the rest - guilt tripping, blocking, reconnecting - would make me very wary of her. She sounds manipulative, and you probably need some distance from that, even if that entails being frank with her (possibly losing her) and telling her you can't be the support person she wants/needs.