Friend's children have MH issues that affect our friendship

[Glossie]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I think probably only those with experience of MH issues in the family and friendships will really be able to appreciate the situation.

Three years ago I got talking to Lou at an event I was attending for work. We hit it off. She had recently moved to my city and so we arranged to meet for coffee. We're interested in similar things, we share the same sense of humour and we started to become good friends.

Our lives are very different. I have a long-term partner: Lou was recently divorced after a long marriage. I have no children and she has three young-adult children, two of whom live at home with her. Her 17-yo daughter hasn't attended school for several years, self-harms and is receiving psychiatric support pending diagnosis. Lou tends to bring her with her wherever she goes and so her DD often comes to our meet-ups. Unfortunately DD is so fragile that her needs have dominated a lot of our plans. Things get cancelled or changed at the last minute or DD gets triggered by something and we have to leave the cinema or the cafe or the place we're in. On top of this her son was diagnosed as having Borderline Personality Disorder last year and has given up university and returned to live at home. Inevitably a lot of our conversation and contact has revolved around her children and the various crises they go through. I've been as understanding as I can. Her DS has made several suicide attempts and on each occasion Lou's called me and asked for help to get him to hospital in the early hours of the morning or to sit with her DD while she takes him in. Our friendship is now dominated by her children.

A few weeks ago she was very stressed about something and sent me a long, complex What's App message which I didn't spot for a couple of hours. When I read it I got the wrong end of the stick and so my response wasn't what she'd expected. She messaged back telling me how unhelpful I'd been, then told me that she needed space and blocked me on What's App.

I sent a text explaining my misreading of the message and saying that I could understand that she was stressed and needed some space, hoped things were okay with the children and left it at that. I heard nothing for around six weeks and frankly began to feel quite relieved to be free of all the distress.

Today I was away at a festival when I got a message from her asking me to come to her house urgently. Her son had smashed a window and hurt himself and she needed to get him to hospital for treatment. I called her, explained I wasn't in the area and we had a brief chat about who else she could ask for help.

I've now had another message asking me to meet her and her daughter for coffee and cake on Monday. It's friendly, as if she didn't go silent on me for weeks. She seems to assume that everything's okay and that things can go back to how they were. I don't want to do that.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? How can you be supportive to a family in this very difficult position without ending up feeling that their needs dominate everything? Is it possible to have a real friendship in these circumstances?

This isn't a friendship it's sounding like a dependency, what do you get out of it .

Due to experience in my past if anyone accuses me now of not being the helpful supportive friend l should be l am gone. When l was younger someone did that to me and l fell for it only to be drained dry. Since then it's a complete NO from me. Friendships need to be balanced. Granted there are stressful times for both at different times but this is all one-sided and may not even be safe for you with broken windows etc.
Pull right back. She is not a life long friend that you have years of good times with and now is in trouble. No need to feel bad ..its just not working.

A final thought from me on this and it’s a long one but this post has reminded me of my childhood friend who always dumped on me. And I don’t drive so she didn’t ask me to take her anywhere or anything but her main thing apart from asking me for money for her and her kids was emotionally dumping on me for years.

It got to the stage if I said anything about myself - like spoke about my insomnia for example, she’d rush in to say how she couldn’t sleep too. She would text me and start telling me how strong I was and how I dealt with things better in one breath (she knew I had my own personal issues ) just so she could justify dumping on me in the next.

The final straw for me was one day I wasn’t feeling great mentally, she started texting me about something and I could see where it was going. I decided to let her know that I wasn’t doing well myself as I’d been sat crying on the floor the whole day when her text came in . I didn’t tell her I wasn’t feeling great to get support from her (oh no I didn’t expect that from her! ) but just to kind of let her know I wasn’t the person to support her today. I didn’t go into detail about crying on the floor etc or ask her for emotional support, I just kind of hinted at not feeling mentally great.

Her texting suddenly and sharply escalated to telling me she didn’t want to live anymore. I could see what she was doing. It was like a frantic attempt to dominate the conversation and re-centre herself as the one worse off.

The worst thing was she was aware an adult family member had said they were going to kill themselves when I was 15 and I was left to talk Them out of it and how much that had affected me. After years of almost daily trauma dumping this was the final straw for me.

I calmly asked her had she told her life partner /father of her children how she felt? She was like um…no 😐 The fact that she thought I was the one who should carry that burden for her and not her life partner, proved to me her lack of regard for my mental health. She had numerous other people (sister, Dad etc) she could have shared that with - if she genuinely felt like that - but yet again she chose me in that moment to dump on despite knowing I was struggling, as she felt I was in danger of a. not performing my 24/7 unpaid therapist role correctly or worse still, b. demanding support from her.

I chose myself after that, I withdrew my 24/7 therapy I’d been providing her my whole life and would redirect her to her partner when she said anything too heavy again. I would ignore her random trauma dumps and no longer allow her to steer light hearted conversation into the realms of her childhood trauma etc.

She has never been there for me in the same way I’ve been there for her and one sided friendships can only go so far. I haven’t cut her off completely, we’ve been friends since primary school but the friendship never recovered after that. I can’t abide that intense selfishness and self absorption.

It's difficult OP. I can sort of relate as I have recently pulled back on a friendship too.

Similar circumstances in that both her DC seem to always be having one crisis or another, and everyone is expected to down tool and assist. Her DC are also older but what I have now realised is that she is not helpful in allowing them to deal with the issues as she hypes things up all the time and involves other people unnecessarily. Like for eg she will make posts on social media etc etc. In a nutshell a helicopter parent, who goes as far as applying for jobs on behalf of them etc etc.

And before anyone jumps on saying I don't get it, I absolutely do as my own DC also had some issues and was hospitalised due to some severe mh issues. But of course, when I was going through one of the most trying times ever, where was she? Nowhere to help me because her DC issues are always worse in her opinion. If I had to bring up my DC, she swings the conversation back to hers.

I see it so much more clearly now, as sad as it is to say, she seems to be dwelling in her DC issues and I think not helping them to cope. Just this week I got a long message with detail of all that is going on, I did reply and said I get it as my DC was struggling with a certain issue right now, and I'm hoping they could all use the tools they learned in therapy to deal with them. Did she ask once about my DC, of course not. Hence me deciding to pull back as mentally she is draining others as well. And I don't have the band width for it. I'm no stranger to mh issues believe me. But it's is possible to hinder not help people in some situations.

You cannot always be the support and get nothing in return. That is not a friendship. That is a more a therapy situation. You need to do what is best for you OP. It's clear to me, but of course it's not so easy in practice.

I'm a bit stunned by some of these responses.

I don't feel as if I'm being used, manipulated or exploited. I've had 'friendships' like that in the past and this is different. Sometimes people do just need help. Heaven knows I've had patches in my life where friends helped me out.

I've read through the thread with my partner, who has someone in his extended family with complex MH issues. He's been supportive of me supporting Lou because he's seen in his own life how hard it can be to cope on your own with someone on the edge. He's reminded me of some of the things she and I did when we first met, before the children started to dominate everything, and how pleased I was to meet someone on the same wavelength.

I'm going to try to get a one-to-one with Lou without her children around and have a proper, realistic conversation about what I can offer and what I need. I'm going to try and establish some boundaries, and that will include asking her not to block me or do anything that looks like game-playing when she's unhappy with me. I think I want to create boundaries around middle-of-the-night emergencies and see if we can't carve out some time for her and me to do friend-type things instead of just being focussed on child management things. I don't know whether she will be capable of that but it might be good for her as well as me. I don't know what'll happen.

My heart goes out to all the people — there seems to be a growing number — dealing with these issues.

Agree with many of the recent posts, especially @DracoDormiensNumquamTittilandum but not the ones who are coming from your friends viewpoint like either be her friend and help her when possible, or just cut ties if you can't deal with supporting her. that berating, blaming you for not being her friend and if you don't do what she wants them you can't be one.

Sorry @Glossie but depending on who your partner was in his family experience will that not have influenced things? Either as the person expected to put themselves last to be the support, the person like Lou expecting all the support, or someone else putting all the expectation on another?

You sound like a really decent person OP. Trying to support Lou but also understanding that there are limits.
I'd suggest having that decent conversation with Lou, so meet up for the coffee with the DD and maybe then just saying that you are happy that you are back in contact as friends and you are happy to support Lou but that you can't always be the first port of call for emergencies and that maybe Lou and her children need to start planning how they cope with these scenarios eg Lou going to hospital with DS and DD had to stay at home. That you appreciate this is all very challenging for them and maybe suggest some family therapy to help develop the coping strategies that will work for them.

Good luck

that berating, blaming you for not being her friend and if you don't do what she wants them you can't be one.

She hasn't berated me at any point or accused me of not being her friend. She politely told me my response wasn't helpful and blocked me — I presume because she was at her wits' end, trying to cope with two incredibly demanding, unwell children. I'm not saying that was great, but because I can understand how desperate and difficult her situation is I can understand. There has never been any 'if you don't help me I'm not going to be your friend' vibe. I would have cut that off instantly, I don't do emotional blackmail. I think you are either misreading the situation or projecting your own experience onto me.

I can see she's in a desperate situation, with two kids who seem in danger of doing something very serious to themselves. There is very little actual, practical support for anyone in this position. That's why people are so reliant on friends.

I would be really interested to hear from other supportive friends how they cope with the pressure and where they draw boundaries.

That’s not a friendship. If it was you’d get something out of it apart from stress and worry. Everyone has their limits, and yours have been reached but you keep ignoring it. By the sounds of it she doesn’t know how to maintain boundaries because she lets her children dominate and control her life, so she uses you as a vent to cope with the stress (she might be unaware of doing this).
Seriously, have the conversation and then remove yourself and focus on your own life.

@Glossie

I think you are being incredibly understanding, but I think you are being used and controlled.

I think the blocking was completely unnecessary. I would see this as a reason to end the friendship.

I would make an excuse not to go, and then distance yourself/you’re busy etc. If texts start to get abusive/controlling then you can do a block back.

There has never been any 'if you don't help me I'm not going to be your friend' vibe.

I think this is what posters are seeing and pointing out that the one time you've not done as she has wished of you, she's blocked you for 6 weeks and then come back when she wants something.

I would be very wary of being available to help her at a drop of a hat. You seem to want to do your best to support her, which is very nice, but you also need to make sure you're prepared to back away from her if/when she breaks any boundaries you try to put in place.

It sounds as though you are her main support and I can imagine she won't be very receptive to you placing boundaries.

This is hard and to a level it is emotional manipulation. Lou doesn’t have anyone else, so she’s now using you as the other parent.but for you you feel like you have to, due to the situation she’s in, disrupting your own life in the process. Lou is acting like you’re duty bound to help. And she is managing it badly.

personally I think the friendship is over unless you accept the role of basically alternate parent.

I can imagine she won't be very receptive to you placing boundaries

it’s going to go one of two ways, either she will agree and carry on regardless. Or she will take extreme offence and have a go.

I think this sums it up. I feel deeply for your friend but It's all about balance, and respecting the friendship.

I honestly think some of the comments in here are a bit heartless. Obviously this friend is coming to you for support and help. You are her refuge which is a huge and cumbersome burden as you are only a human too. She's so overwhelmed in her own personal troubles that she thinks you are living an easy life and will not mind taking on her burdens. You should remain a friend to her but make it clear that you are not available at every hour to support her adult children (granted one is a year off). Not dismissing MH, these adults seem quite attention seeking and competitive. They need to be institutionalised so that they can get the proper care they need. Their mum needs more of a life rather than living on tenterhooks of a possible suicide. Advise her to put them in an institution or tell her to get them some proper counselling.

🎯

She may well have alienated her other friends.

I think this is what posters are seeing and pointing out that the one time you've not done as she has wished of you, she's blocked you for 6 weeks and then come back when she wants something.

I understood it as someone totally at the end of her tether and very frustrated taking her frustration out on me because she can't take it out on her children or their father or anyone else. I think there are very few of us who can always behave well under immense pressure.

When she's not under this kind of pressure she's a thoughtful, self-aware adult: no game-playing, no exploitation, capable of mature friendship. A lot of the time at the moment she's in survival mode. I don't expect people in survival mode to behave as if everything is fine.

She needs professional help, she's stuck in rescuing her daughter at least from demons that she doesn't really need rescuing from.

If you really want to save the relationship you might be able to buy beginning to work together on the daughter's anxiety. Her fear that someone will break in if she is home alone is not really rational.
I would begin going round for coffee rather than going out for coffee. Mum will need to explain that dd's anxiety has got out of control and if it's ok with her they will begin to very gently get it back under control. Then you sit in the garden for coffee; DD sits inside.
Then you sit in the garden for coffee and then your friend comes out to say goodbye on the street where you chat for a minute, DD is inside.
Then you have coffee and then go for a 5 min walk without DD. Then a ten minute walk. Etc. DD needs to know that it's highly likely that her anxiety will ramp up at first, because that's what anxiety does, it tries to protect it's own existence. However the point is, no one has broken in each time so the anxiety was a waste of time and energy.

She can also have an emergency plan for the incredibly unlikely event if someone breaking in. And facts about how burglars much prefer empty homes and will avoid one with people in if they can.

Do you think that deep down she likes being the safe space and rescuer of her young adult kids? Or does she just need a better understanding of anxiety and how it works?

They need to be institutionalised so that they can get the proper care they need. Their mum needs more of a life rather than living on tenterhooks of a possible suicide. Advise her to put them in an institution or tell her to get them some proper counselling.

Do you really think you can just deliver your children to an institution (what institution?!) and they'll be taken in and cared for and their MH issues sorted out? I'm guessing you don't live in the UK — or perhaps you're so wealthy you would send your family members to the Priory.

I think OP you should look at your own behaviour in this situation. Why do you feel you have to be the rescuer? Why do you have to go a ‘save’ her in situations? Yes she is pulling you in but you’ve spent a long time being part of the show. Seems as if you’ve got a bit of saviour complex going on.

Have a look at this link - https://www.grouporttherapy.com/blog/savior-complex#:~:text=The%20savior%20complex%20is%20a,in%20relationships%20and%20personal%20distress.

Research the drama triangle. You're being positioned as both rescuer and persecutor. Lou is both rescuer and victim.

I know this may be disliked by some but unless the DC have neurodivergent conditions which are linked to mental illness/suicidality I wonder is there a link to the children's life experiences/parenting they have received and their mental health? What steps has Lou taken to support them to recover, including accessing professional advice? Is it beneficial for the DD to never be left alone and to be taken anywhere her mum goes? I wonder what a psychologist or psychiatrist would advise?

I don't 'need' more friends, so anyone trying this number on me will get short shrift. I have a nice, relatively uncomplicated, contented sort of life that includes good friends made over many years. I have a good partner I've been with for a long time. I'm not looking for more people in my life. I have to really feel a strong, positive connection to someone to want to spend time with them — and that's what we had originally and what I would hope we could have again.

I'm about to go out now and I'm not sure when I'll be back.

unless the DC have neurodivergent conditions which are linked to mental illness/suicidality

They do. ASD, BPD and a whole string of other psychiatrist-diagnosed major MH issues that I can't remember. The daughter's diagnosis has changed a couple of times: I think schizophrenia has been mentioned but because she's still very young it's not clear. Both children have talking therapy. There are psychiatric social workers involved. We're not talking about children who've caught anxiety from Tiktok. I really am going out now.

I know some of the replies are not want you were wanting or maybe expecting to hear. I do understand that it's difficult to see someone close to you struggling.

I feel I am a very empathic and patient person but I don't think I could be this laid back about being blocked as the reply you sent, was not what your friend wanted to hear. Blocking to me sends a very solid message.

It is great that her DC are both in therapy. But as mentioned, they need to practice the coping skills they are being taught. That is what therapy does. It isn't taking away the situation, but teaches coping skills to deal with it. Can you see how her mum is enabling her dd somewhat by allowing her to go everywhere with her all the time. I have been there. I know it's difficult. Is there any chance your friend could get some help too?

I hope you do get to meet, just the two of you. But I would have to make it very clear that shutting someone down like that is hurtful when you seem to have been a solid support system for a while now.