Very worried about a friend's teen...

[RunicWords]

I'm friendly with the mum of one of my 13-year-old daughter's school friends (since early primary school days). We're not close friends, but we meet up for occasional coffees and chats.

Anyway, my daughter is not close to this girl (let's call her H), but they are in the same friendship group. H has always been socially awkward with very strange / unusual behaviour and mannerisms. I realize I'm no expert but I'd say she has some kind of disorder, whether autism or something else. However, her mother – as far as I can gauge from conversations with her – is very against any kind of 'labelling'. Obviously, I've never said a word about my thoughts to her because I absolutely know it's not my place.

Anyway, H has really struggled in secondary school and is now refusing to attend altogether. She's very bright but I suspect the pandemic made her anxieties around school/friendships worse and going back wasn't easy. She hasn't attended school for many months now.

I saw her mother recently who described how H literally stays in her room with her computer / phone and doesn't engage with her parents at all (not even at meal times). She only comes out to get food, which she takes back to her room. She's an only child, so has no contact with other children in the home. Apparently she isn't doing any schoolwork at all. She was seeing a CAHMS counsellor (who believed she has depression) but H now refuses point blank to see her or anyone else, at home or elsewhere. My friend seemed disparaging about CAHMS, I feel like she was quick to say nobody understands her daughter and she isn't making counselling a priority. Apparently the school are not really engaged since CAHMS got involved – I'm not sure if they can do anything.

I just can't bear to think of this girl shut up in her room 24/7. Her mother speaks like she just needs time to get better, but how can she if she's isolated from the world outside. My daughter receives the odd text from her and says she goes to bed after midnight and gets up at 4pm. I don't think she's communicating with anyone else at school. It's like she's living in some cold, friendless world and has just slipped between the cracks – is there anything I should do? I really don't want to meddle but a voice keeps telling me that nobody is paying any attention to this awful situation.

You can call childrens social services or the nspcc if you are worried

Thank you. That feels drastic and I'm worried about making things worse. I wondered if I should approach the school...

You sound very judgemental of her mum. Do you know what it’s like to have a child this unwell?
She is probably disparaging about Camhs for good reason, and the reason the child isn’t getting help is that there isn’t any.

FWIW, my dd did get better (as in better than she was, not cured), when she was allowed to retreat into her room and we adopted a no pressure approach. Pushing her to socialise is even less likely to work if she’s autistic, she may be experiencing autistic burnout and need this time to withdraw and reset?

Your concern obviously comes from a good place, but this sounds like a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. I wouldn’t add to this family’s terrible time by making a safeguarding referral (and further traumatise the child). She is known to Camhs and the school, she isn’t off the radar. I’m not sure what else you think her mum can do in terms of engaging with professional support?

You also lost me at ‘some kind of disorder’, even though you probably didn’t mean to be as offensive as that.

Please do raise it. I know someone's son that did this and flew under the radar of the school etc. I can't say much but it didn't have a good outcome.

Try children's services and safeguarding at the school perhaps?

My teen went this way for a while. He has ASD and went into burnout. For him he needed time to recover, so her mum may not be miles off the mark. Leaving school and moving up to college has really brought him out of his shell. School just wasn’t a good fit for him and it was a daily struggle. I don’t know the answer but you may not be armed with all the information her mum is.

This is language nit picking. Maybe op didn't use the precise correct language to express her observations, but she was not expressing an offensive opinion she was describing a vulnerability which is explaining part of where her concern comes from.

Emotional based school avoidance, otherwise known as school refusal, is very common.

She may only be able to cope with being in her room and gaming. She may not be able to access any work or cope eating meals with others.

CAMHS are useless.

Loads of parents go through this. For some children it can take a long time before they are able to access education. The LA is often useless in meeting the legal requirement to put in alternative provision.

Offer your friend support not judgement. They are not locking the child in the room, they are meeting their child's current needs. I have been there . It's awful being judged by people who have no idea of what you and the child is going through.

My child spent more than 12 months more or less in his room his mental health was shocking. He's now had the chance to recover and is going to a local 6th form. He was diagnosed with autism after struggling with school.

I agree with this.

CAMHS are a joke because they are severely understaffed and under funded. It is beyond exhausting battling with them to even get on the wait lists, which are then painfully long, and result in a handful of sessions.

It’s not nitpicking. I’m not someone who jumps on ‘ASD’ or ‘person with autism’ as some people do but ‘some kind of disorder’ actually made me wonder whether this was a real post. On balance, I think it is, and just poor choice of words.

I wouldn’t raise it because I know how much worse it has the potential to make things for the child and their family. Services aren’t always understanding of neurodivergence or the ways in which families might need to parent differently.

Can you explain why it's offensive? I was concerned about the right language and actually looked it up before posting. Autism is widely termed as a developmental disorder, is that not correct?
All I mean is that I don't know if my friend's daughter has autism or another condition - but my post definitely comes from the right place. I'm worried that apart from her parents, I'm the only person who knows she's not leaving her room, and going to bed in the early hours and sleeping till 4pm. I feel like she must be languishing but of course I can't know all the facts.
I do know that the school has stopped getting in touch and CAHMS have said they can't do anything if she won't engage.
I also know that my friend has always resisted labels. I think the school suggested her daughter be assessed for autism as a young child and she refused. Someone told me this who probably shouldn't have.
I really don't want to be judgemental. Just asking for advice because you do hear about kids that go under the radar.

@RunicWords op I am sure you are trying to help.
As other posters have said Camhs is underfunded and has huge waiting lists. ASD is not a development issue. It is now termed neuro diversity and covers many conditions and has no bearing on intellect or success if properly supported.
I had a school refuser. There is a charity called not fine in school. They can help.
If you want to reach out, say to your friend 'tell me to bog off but my daughter is worried about yours. Can I help?'
Better than thinking something awful is happening.

Thanks for explaining.
If the National Autism society and the World Health Organisation are calling it a disability / disorder (see their websites), it's not surprising those terms continue to be used.
I suppose we understand that it can indeed be a disability for some, depending on its severity. Is it wrong to recognise that?
But anyway, I really didn't intend to offend diversion and not what my post was about!!

I really don't want to be judgemental. Just asking for advice because you do hear about kids that go under the radar.

Did you read my post @ 17.48 or are you only reading ones that support your narrative that the mother must be in the wrong?

Oops... meant, this is a diversion and I really didn't mean to offend anyone.

Yes, I did read it and all the others. Thank you.
I think it's clear I'm asking for advice because I want to do the right thing. Glad to hear your child has made progress.
I would absolutely hate to interfere if it wasn't the right thing to do. I appreciate it must feel horrible to be judged too when you as a parent know what's best for your child.

So have you asked her how you can support or have you just come on the internet to get people to agree that she must be an awful parent?

Because unless you have asked how you can support you know that CAMHS are involved and the child is known it comes across as incredibly judgemental to those of us who have had similar experiences.

I don’t think op is being judgmental, I think she’s asking how she might help. And potentially trying to prevent a teen slipping towards something terrifying.

She can help by talking to her friend and asking her how things are going and how she might be able to help. Rather than implying that the girl is being neglected or worse.

This child is known to services. What she is experiencing is completely normal with autism and burnout.

How odd to imply I can't question someone's actions as a parent. Are you saying parents always know best and concerned bystanders should just butt out? Because clearly that isn't always the right option.
I don't know if my friend is doing right by her daughter or not. She's a nice person but that's not the same thing. And yes, I'm supportive and try to be helpful but there's clearly little I can actually do.
I came on here not to be judgemental but because I genuinely worry this girl is slipping between the cracks. I just wondered what other people who have some experience / insight might advise. Like yourself, as your experience is clearly relevant - though it's a shame you're being so defensive.

Same.

And yes, I'm supportive and try to be helpful but there's clearly little I can actually do.

So how have you actually tried to be supportive?

I must have missed that part of your OP

You have explained that you are concerned that she has her daughter locked in her room and that she doesn't eat meals with them. Have you asked her why that is?

Have you asked her why she feels that CAMHS is not being helpful or why she feels that an autism diagnosis wouldn't help.

Yes I am defensive because I'm sick to the teeth of the judgement I received from people that I'd have happily explained the situation to if they had bothered to ask.

You have absolutely no idea of how devastating it is to find yourself with a child in this situation. I am explaining my experience of pretty much exactly the same experience but you are not listening . You are calling it defensive.