Unhealthy relationship with money that makes me despair

[FrustratinglyIrrational]

I have a horribly unhealthy relationship with money, and I don't know what to do. It consumes me and makes me so sad when I don't objectively have much to be sad about (I am also continually crippled with regret, and often money-related regret).

Growing up, we always lived very frugally as my parents didn't have a lot. So all my clothes were either hand-me-downs (from my older brother...), second hand, or (once I got a bit older) new but on sale. I never had full-priced clothes, and anything more than the basics I would have to at least part pay for myself, using birthday and Christmas money from relatives. Our freezer was always full of "yellow label" (reduced) items, and my mum always went to the supermarket at a particular time in order to make the most of the reductions. I don't think we were "poor", but we certainly weren't well-off relative to peers, and it did affect me (I still remember how awful I felt being laughed at by everyone at netball practice aged 10, because of the brightly coloured hand-me-down tracksuit bottoms I was wearing, and I felt so sad and insecure).

I don't know how relevant that background is, because my siblings don't have the same unhealthy relationship with money, but it seemed worth mentioning. Anyway, fast forward a couple of decades, I'm now earning very well in a job I like, and have a partner who earns extremely well, and yet I can't stand spending money, and feel extremely anxious any time I have to make any kind of decision involving money. It's as though my brain thinks the goal is to accumulate money rather than use it. Rationally I know this is not right, but I just cannot internalise it, and I obsess for weeks over what I perceive as financially suboptimal decisions that I've made. I get anxious eating out with friends, particularly if it's a more expensive restaurant, because eating out feels like throwing away money — I always look for the cheapest thing on the menu, and find it hard to enjoy. There are many supermarket things that I will only buy if they are significantly reduced, and I'm always hunting for yellow labels. I never buy anything apart from food or essential clothes, because I can't cope with the decisions involved in choosing, and the potential regret from not choosing the financially optimal option (even though I don't actually need to be careful anymore). I don't allow myself nice things, or pay for myself to learn new skills that I'd like to learn, because I can't stand spending the money. When people say things like "go on, treat yourself", all I can think is that to me it wouldn't be a treat, because I'd just be worrying about the money I'd spent, and wouldn't be able to enjoy it. I am genuinely unable to enjoy, say, a tub of Ben & Jerry's if my partner bought it full price, rather than on offer. I know how ridiculous that sounds, but it's so ingrained.

Right now I'm feeling utterly down in the dumps because we just exchanged on a house where I have some reason to believe we could've had an offer ~5% less accepted, and I can't get over the fact that I think we've overpaid. Again, I know how ridiculous that sounds. We're able to buy a house that will allow us to move out of our dingy rented flat and have much more space in a much nicer area, and all I can think about is the money I think we could and should have saved. But that is how I feel.

I feel suffocated and trapped, and utterly in despair. What's worse is that I can't even bring myself to get therapy for it, because I can't fathom spending those amounts on something that I'm not expecting to help much (based on some past experiences of trying therapy for anxiety/depression). How can I bring myself to spend money on something like that, when I have so much trouble spending money on things that I know to be valuable?

I long for another way of thinking about things, but however rationally I try to reason with myself, I can't remove the internal feeling that consumes me. I feel so sad. I know I'm not living nearly as enjoyable a life as I can afford to. But I seem unable to allow myself to enjoy things that cost money. I hate myself so much, and I cause a lot of bother for my partner and family by letting this get me down so much. I'm so scared that this is just me, and however much I cover it up on the outside (I think only my family really see this side of me), it's always going to be there, making me feel rubbish.

Why am I like this? Is there any way I can make it stop? I mean, really make it stop? Even on better days, I know it's just a matter of time (a particularly bad night's sleep, some event that particularly bothers me) before I become overwhelmed with anxiety and regret, and often about money-related matters. I haven't managed to find much on the web about this, because most money-related problems seem to be to do with overspending rather than underspending. I just really need a new way of looking at things that will really work. Please help. I feel embarrassed, because I know so many people don't have enough money, and I have more than enough and yet I'm claiming to have a problem. But I feel desperate.

In case I haven't written enough of an essay already... I think part of the "problem" (by which I mean my mental problem) is that I've gone from being not very well off to really quite rich — especially given my partner's earnings — in a relatively short space of time. I used to get great satisfaction from finding a bargain in a sale, or saving a bit of money here and there, and it made sense at the time because I didn't have a lot. But now all those little victories feel pointless, because it's not worth my time anymore, relative to my earnings. I feel like I was less troubled when I had less, because it didn't take a lot to feel like I'd "won". Whereas now I still feel the need to save, save, save, but it feels stupid saving a few quid here and there when my partner will spend far more without giving it a second thought, which in my brain cancels out all the saving I do (and so he should be able to, of course, but I have such trouble reconciling it with my desire to save at all costs). I should reiterate again that I know it's ridiculous and perhaps tone-deaf of me to be complaining about money when so many people don't even have enough to get by, but it's consuming me, and don't know what to do.

I think you are very harsh on yourself. It's sad to read.

You have some money. Would you consider going to a therapist? I think you deserve to be happy in life, but maybe your problems are deeper than can be resolved by strangers on the Internet.

I think you should get some therapy & luckily you are in the position to afford it.

Please view the money spent on your therapist as an investment in your future self; it will allow you to move on and enjoy your life and relationships more. The money I spent on my therapy was the best money I've ever spent on myself.

It does sound like this is linked to your past. Although could it be a form of control in your life because you are feeling unstable. It is obviously making you very unhappy.

What does your partner say? It must affected your life together if he is high earning.

Like others says therapy would be the best way to help yourself, but you say that you are reluctant to spend money on yourself. So spending money on therapy could be very difficult in itself.

It sounds simple and may be trait, but mindfulness is excellent to break obsessive thinking. Also it sounds like you may be overwhelmed in an new environment with more money. That can bring higher expectations socially. Have you kept contact with friends and family from your past?

If you aren't going to go to therapy, I'd be trying to make sure all other area of my life are fulfilling or going well. It helps to distract the mind to stop this overthinking. Also be aware of your behaviour and how affects others (your partner, new friends, old friends, family). That way it becomes easier to work through decisions, eg spending money in a certain way.

There was a really good thread a month or so back about similar- lots of women who, for various complex reasons, were unable to justify spending money, mainly on themselves. There were a lot of women who wrote similar things to your story and there was some amazing advice given. I hope a PP remembers it so it could be linked.

Found it. Well worth a read, PP. You are not alone.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4221249-Does-anyone-here-neglect-themselves-in-small-ways

I sounds like anxiety and this is the coat it wears for you.

Have you an Employee Assistance Programme available to you at work? Could you go to your GP and get referred for counselling for anxiety?

Another option would be to write out all the figures, what you earn, and put 10% into a ‘splurge’ account every month, and then spend this on just extras, nice things, and do spend it, build it into your budget. I’m not saying to squander this on fidget toys or garbage, but Investing in some nice runners and comfortable underwear is not wasteful. If you build this into your budget and plan for this then maybe it will ease the anxiety.

Regarding the house, you might have lost out if you had offered less, if you love the house, it was worth the extra amount because it secured it for you.

There is definitely help for your anxiety, go to the library and get some books out about it, you can definitely tackle this and improve your life. Dr. Harry Barry has some great videos and books and they could really help you.

It doesn’t matter about your siblings, people can grow up in the same house and have very different experiences. All the bargain hunting and reluctance to spend money came from there from you and you can get help to change your thinking a bit and live a happy life, I know it.

All the very best and mind yourself. Congratulations on your new house and whatever you do, don’t buy cheap paint because you will end up paying twice

Good luck x

Fucking hell. This is so depressing. I found it very hard to read your post. What an absolute life of misery.

Please seek help from your GP for free counselling. And also pay for private counselling.

What about the small pleasures. What do you take pleasure in?

1)None of your siblings are like this. So that's worrying.
2) the yellow stickers was not embarrassing. No one knew what your freezer was like, or your mum bought only reduced items. But the embarrassment of the tracksuit bottoms on pe day is clearly significant.
3) you say you are anxious and depressed previously, but counselling didn't help then. That's not good. Bad counsellor? Or rather your mindset is so closed you aren't open to being helped?
4)Because you have such chronic self esteem you don't value yourself, don't think you are worth it? Where does that come from?

There is so much going on here, a counsellor would only be able to work on certain bits to start off with. But please at least start.

Gosh that thread, the holes in the knickers thread! Well done pp for linking. That was a very sad thread too.

Hope it helps.

I understand this Op, I think you definitely need to find a way round this or it will start to affect your relationship. Being tight is not an attractive quality! Make sure you have six months to a year in cash savings, overpay your mortgage by a few hundred and put the max into your pension. Then spend and enjoy the test knowing you have a great stable foundation. Life is for living!

OP huge hugs. Growing up we were extremely comfortable and I got a land when myself and dh had kids as due to the boom our mortgage went up in our apartment but we had to start renting and couldn't find anyone to rent and couldn't pay the bills. So started years where we got progressively poorer and poorer. In the last few years we've caught up but spending any money terrifies me. I still gather up change (some days we lived off that for food), I think of everything in terms of 'but that's X of a food shop'. I panic about every single euro. Every cent even. The kids don't get extras and dh is always trying to get me to relax (but he's not too far off me himself). I lie to my friends when they send me links with nice stuff I might like and pretend I might get it. The kids got their first pair of shoes that weren't hand me downs in years recently and it gave me palpitations and guilt too as I think they might have been the 6 year olds 2nd pair of shoes that weren't someone else's. I hope you figure it out

I used to be like this. I still pretty much only buy clothes on sale. Sometimes I remember times I wasted money literally years and years ago and I feel physically sick (e.g. one time I lost half of strain ticket and had to replace it).

I think the only real answer for me was to pay my savings account first - that way I knew I had saved "enough" and anything left was fair game. I also have a short term savings account to pay for car repairs etc that I pay into every month and that essentially means I don't accidentally tell myself the rest of my money is earmarked for that.

Interestingly I now view myself as pretty extravagant - I have a cleaner and gum membership. But I also live in a house half the price of what I could afford, run a decade old and still regularly but second hand clothes.

Mine did get better as well once I had a really stable job and a solid chunk of savings in the bank.

Is the anxiety associated with spending a distraction from something else in your life you haven't faced?
Something you have convinced yourself is not important, is not worth making a fuss about, isn't worth dwelling on. So you push it to the back of your mind and it is trying to surface via the fear of spending.
(Armchair psychologist here but I managed to suppress things for years - once my DCs left home and I had to concentrate more on myself I went for quite a lot of counselling to deal with things I had believed weren't important).
You could set yourself a target of meditating every day for, say, a month/3 months, that does seem to reset your brain if you can stick at it. There are lots of books about meditation you can read for info.

I think that you were taught to behave like this. And now you're an adult you're just doing what was modelled to you.

You need to know that you can choose how to behave now you're an adult and that rejecting this extreme frugalism isn't regecting your entire childhood, nor rejecting everything you were ever taught.

You are allowed to choose to spend money. You will also make mistakes as you make those choices. And given that you're comfortable now, those mistakes are unlikely to leave you in poverty.

It's like you haven't got the 'off' switch in your brain. You can't turn off the feelings around being frugal. There is a book, about OCD called the brain lock which may help you to understand better this off mechanism.

However you choose to move forward with this, I think you absolutely need to be kind to yourself and accept that changing how you feel about money will be difficult and something that requires effort on your part. But it sounds like you're ready to do something about it. Often, that's the hardest thing, so you've started the journey.

Good luck.

Please view the money spent on your therapist as an investment in your future self

Absolutely. I also have the frugal gene, but I've trained myself to invest my charity shop savings in theatre tickets...

Also, instead of just saving, can you invest in your pension and ISAs? This way you may get used to pending money, without actually spending it.

I also think it’s possible it isn’t about the money per se. it sounds like maybe you have anxiety about something else in your life and you control that anxiety by controlling your spending.

OP please get help. MIL is similar; as was FIL. They grew up in poverty and never shook it off. She's 85 now. More importantly, however, her three children remember being hungry growing up and sharing a bloody cornet on their mean stingy holidays. All three grew up thinking they were poor and even now their family home is like the house that time forgot. They were not poor, their parents just could not shake the mindset. The tragedy was that dh found more than £1m in savings when FIL died.

The girls left home at 18 and left the UK when they finished uni. One lives like her mother. One has softened over the years because her DH is a jolly chap. DH focused on his career and developed a liking for nice things although we are both cautious but Chardonnay tastes with champagne money.

3luckystars wrote a very good post. You really must get help because this seeps down the generations and causes lasting harm.

Tragically, when FIL died, DH (I kid you not) found £1million plus in savings.

Sorry would have edited that. Didn't mean to wrote the same thing twice.

I think counselling could really help you. The fact your siblings are not the same does not mean it isn't connected to your past experiences. upbringing + personality + events at key ages/times means you can be different despite growing up in the same house.

Do you or your partner have private health are through work? Just wondering if you could start with the counselling that will cover (usually 6 sessions) and then if you feel that is helping, you may be able to bring yourself to pay for more?

This core beliefs is my favourite article on understanding and changing core beliefs - those unconscious thoughts about yourself, other people, the world and how we fit in.

Back in your childhood, you developed a core belief that spending money is wrong and that something awful will happen if you waste money. Your mind has built up the 'rules' to protect and nurture that core belief; even though it's no long true or relevant. Try working through the exercises in that article or look for other resources - there are lots of free ones out there. Hopefully you can work through this yourself, or at least get to a point where you can justify (and see the value) in therapy.

Lots of great advice here. I don’t want to be repeating every post so far! So, agree with all pp.

I am sorry you are so anxious about spending money. I used to be that way. I am still frugal but not as anxious so there is hope for you.

Similar to the splurge account of 10% suggested above, what I did was take our family holidays and gave myself permission to make them a reward for being frugal. I book five star places and give ourselves very generous budget for eating out, day trips, activities, souvenirs. Holidays is when I give myself permission to “act rich” and just indulge all of us. The kids want a day at a water park with outrageously overpriced food stalls and rides...YES I say and we go and enjoy ourselves, have a brilliant day out. Want to take a ferry to a famous market...sure why not.

( It helps me too that I just have DH do the paying for everything when in holiday so I can ignore the prices more easily. Lol.)

I’m more mellow now and even though I still look to buy anything I need second hand, if I can’t find it instead of going without, I am to point of shrugging and saying oh well going to buy it new...and then I’ll research best deal where price gets you most quality or most functionality for your money. I am silly in some ways, I still have my iPhone 4 and refuse to get a new one until that one dies.

But the important thing is to tackle your anxiety. You can still be frugal wherever you want, but you need to feel ok when you do treat yourself or have to spend a bit more.

Building on what @PlanDeRaccordement says it's also worth looking at the opportunity cost of the time spent trying to save money. Yes I could probably buy the same product for a fiver/tenner less if I researched carefully. But I will never recover the lost time.

It's odd what carries forward from this sort of childhood. DH carries a simpering resentment about not being able to go on school trips, even to give his parents the letter. He has signed the chit for every trip the DC have had the opportunity to go on without thinking. However, he will still walk to our nearest town (3 mile round trip) rather than pay for parking and he never tops up my petrol if he uses my car

"I think that you were taught to behave like this. And now you're an adult you're just doing what was modelled to you."

Agreed. But please you need to at least TRY and break this habit, adjust it. Modify it. Acknowledge it and work on it, constantly, every time you find yourself reverting to type. Stop and change.

Because it's bad. It's abusive. It's damaging. To you.

Worse still. It's damaging to your children. To see you behave this way.
You don't want to pass this on, this trait, this behaviour, to your children, do you?

You are stronger than you think. Break this. So that they don't, like a shampoo , 'rinse and repeat'.