Unhealthy relationship with money that makes me despair

[FrustratinglyIrrational]

I have a horribly unhealthy relationship with money, and I don't know what to do. It consumes me and makes me so sad when I don't objectively have much to be sad about (I am also continually crippled with regret, and often money-related regret).

Growing up, we always lived very frugally as my parents didn't have a lot. So all my clothes were either hand-me-downs (from my older brother...), second hand, or (once I got a bit older) new but on sale. I never had full-priced clothes, and anything more than the basics I would have to at least part pay for myself, using birthday and Christmas money from relatives. Our freezer was always full of "yellow label" (reduced) items, and my mum always went to the supermarket at a particular time in order to make the most of the reductions. I don't think we were "poor", but we certainly weren't well-off relative to peers, and it did affect me (I still remember how awful I felt being laughed at by everyone at netball practice aged 10, because of the brightly coloured hand-me-down tracksuit bottoms I was wearing, and I felt so sad and insecure).

I don't know how relevant that background is, because my siblings don't have the same unhealthy relationship with money, but it seemed worth mentioning. Anyway, fast forward a couple of decades, I'm now earning very well in a job I like, and have a partner who earns extremely well, and yet I can't stand spending money, and feel extremely anxious any time I have to make any kind of decision involving money. It's as though my brain thinks the goal is to accumulate money rather than use it. Rationally I know this is not right, but I just cannot internalise it, and I obsess for weeks over what I perceive as financially suboptimal decisions that I've made. I get anxious eating out with friends, particularly if it's a more expensive restaurant, because eating out feels like throwing away money — I always look for the cheapest thing on the menu, and find it hard to enjoy. There are many supermarket things that I will only buy if they are significantly reduced, and I'm always hunting for yellow labels. I never buy anything apart from food or essential clothes, because I can't cope with the decisions involved in choosing, and the potential regret from not choosing the financially optimal option (even though I don't actually need to be careful anymore). I don't allow myself nice things, or pay for myself to learn new skills that I'd like to learn, because I can't stand spending the money. When people say things like "go on, treat yourself", all I can think is that to me it wouldn't be a treat, because I'd just be worrying about the money I'd spent, and wouldn't be able to enjoy it. I am genuinely unable to enjoy, say, a tub of Ben & Jerry's if my partner bought it full price, rather than on offer. I know how ridiculous that sounds, but it's so ingrained.

Right now I'm feeling utterly down in the dumps because we just exchanged on a house where I have some reason to believe we could've had an offer ~5% less accepted, and I can't get over the fact that I think we've overpaid. Again, I know how ridiculous that sounds. We're able to buy a house that will allow us to move out of our dingy rented flat and have much more space in a much nicer area, and all I can think about is the money I think we could and should have saved. But that is how I feel.

I feel suffocated and trapped, and utterly in despair. What's worse is that I can't even bring myself to get therapy for it, because I can't fathom spending those amounts on something that I'm not expecting to help much (based on some past experiences of trying therapy for anxiety/depression). How can I bring myself to spend money on something like that, when I have so much trouble spending money on things that I know to be valuable?

I long for another way of thinking about things, but however rationally I try to reason with myself, I can't remove the internal feeling that consumes me. I feel so sad. I know I'm not living nearly as enjoyable a life as I can afford to. But I seem unable to allow myself to enjoy things that cost money. I hate myself so much, and I cause a lot of bother for my partner and family by letting this get me down so much. I'm so scared that this is just me, and however much I cover it up on the outside (I think only my family really see this side of me), it's always going to be there, making me feel rubbish.

Why am I like this? Is there any way I can make it stop? I mean, really make it stop? Even on better days, I know it's just a matter of time (a particularly bad night's sleep, some event that particularly bothers me) before I become overwhelmed with anxiety and regret, and often about money-related matters. I haven't managed to find much on the web about this, because most money-related problems seem to be to do with overspending rather than underspending. I just really need a new way of looking at things that will really work. Please help. I feel embarrassed, because I know so many people don't have enough money, and I have more than enough and yet I'm claiming to have a problem. But I feel desperate.

OP, do you have a budget? Extreme frugality, poverty etc sometimes mean you don't develop the skills to manage surplus resources.

A budget can be comforting, you can see everything nicely in its place and you can see what's left, and based on current incomings and outgoings you can anticipate the future.

It might help shift some of your feelings around what you need and what you can afford, and because it's not happening in real time (you can even build in a budget for emergencies, unforeseen changes etc) you can prepare yourself to spend.

I hope you can make some helpful changes, this seems like a hard way to live It's difficult to be gentle with yourself if you don't know what that looks like.

I’m a bit like this.

It’s the way you’ve been brought up. My father is very tight and my mother generous. It created tension growing up. I now have to get everything at a bargain price or use discount codes and feel victorious if I get money off.
I’ve also married someone generous who understands there is more to life than money and doesn’t have my ‘rules’ or ‘constraints’ about spending.

I have to keep telling myself to live in the moment. Would you actually be happier with the 5% you think you overpaid in the bank and stay in your current property? Life is full off moments where we could all have made better financial decisions but as long as you then have enough for tomorrow it has to be viewed as water under the bridge.

Therapy. You already know the answer.

Tbh, you sound irritated and exhausted with yourself. If you don’t spend on therapy, you will carry on like that. Which, frankly, you will deserve.

I have a similar but opposite problem.

Also grew up with limited money and parents didn't use credit cards and we were provided for but basics and nothing fancy. Food was often cheap or Tesco basics. Very few holidays or days out at attractions, although we went to locals parks and swimming at lot.

Clothes were hand me downs and pound stretchers. Only 1 gift for Xmas and birthdays and of a small ish value.

Looking back I realise my family were not very materialistic and cautious with money. But I always felt guilty to ask for anything.

Now as an adult in a well paid job I really struggle with spending too much. I can't bear to say no to my kids. I like them wearing designer makes as I never could.

I stress and worry about my kids not having the right things to fit in. I my self have bags of clothes that I buy and don't take back that don't fit.

I know we could payoff a lot of things if I stopped spending but I really struggle

@Oblomov21

"I think that you were taught to behave like this. And now you're an adult you're just doing what was modelled to you."

Agreed. But please you need to at least TRY and break this habit, adjust it. Modify it. Acknowledge it and work on it, constantly, every time you find yourself reverting to type. Stop and change.

Because it's bad. It's abusive. It's damaging. To you.

Worse still. It's damaging to your children. To see you behave this way.
You don't want to pass this on, this trait, this behaviour, to your children, do you?

You are stronger than you think. Break this. So that they don't, like a shampoo , 'rinse and repeat'.

I completely agree with this. I come from a childhood with not a lot of money around. Now I have money and live comfortably and have really tried to break the “guilt” habit, especially for my children. I have my nails done, regular hair cuts, even treated myself to Botox ! It’s been really hard to break the cycle of going without and making do, but have really made an effort (and had some therapy) An example of my behaviour is needing a new pan, faffing around with a few trips to John Lewis, coming away empty handed. I actually got so fed up with myself and spent 60 quid on a lovely pan, and am delighted with it, but it felt really hard and it felt profligate when I could get a cheaper one. It’s hard to spend money, when it’s so ingrained in your psyche to feel guilty.

I think that there may be a few "thought experiments" that may be useful to you. These may be controversial and may seem flippant but I get that this is a serious issue.

Money is to to get you and keep you out of trouble, to provide food and shelter and then comfort and security and then eventually joyful treats and luxury.

The great thing for you is that while money may represent the idea of security, in fact poverty holds no fear for you - it is actually something that you are good at!! and even enjoy!

Would you continue to be as frugal if the world was coming to an end in one years time? Because guess what? The world that is 2021 is coming to an end in 6 months time and a whole new world of 2022 will begin. Hopefully!

Have a generous budget for things that you struggle to spend on and then set a time scale and donate the unused part of the budget to a cause you totally disagree with, you might find you manage to spend the money!

Keep large sums in your current account - it makes you feel better off!

In our house the yellow sticker was called "mum's special ingredient"! It does make it easier when faced with too much choice, but decide when shopping to avoid looking at prices, think about whether you want it or not, regardless of price. (Totally agree with you about the Ben and Jerries'! though).

As regards "outings" it is possible to think of them differently - yes you can consider a meal out is limited to the value of the ingredients on the plate - or
you can consider what it cost to build the building, decorate the rooms, train the staff, pay the staff, pay the farmer, the transport of the food , the fuel to cook it. The bill for you to have ALL that is relatively miniscule! I have to say that I do resent paying restaurant prices for very ordinary food, and try to choose places with great food and ambience - the experience makes a big "footprint" in terms of looking forward to it, dressing up for it and then looking back ad remembering it, long after the wince of the bill has faded.

For me I am willing to pay a fortune for dentistry but cant bring myself to pay for an expensive hair cut. Why???

New motto "Don't be cheap!"

Thank you all so much for your kindness and understanding, as well as your thoughtful suggestions. I meant to reply to some of your questions (and ask a few more), but yesterday was rather hectic and I haven't had time yet. But I just wanted to say thank you for now. Somehow just reading through all your messages has helped a little, and I really appreciate it.

I agree with others, a few sessions with a therapist might help.

I have the same issue to a lesser degree and oddly, the last year has helped. I've always earned well, own my own house, car etc.but was made redundant last year and out of work for 7 months. I locked down spending, had a horribly stressful year, then found a new job and realised that we'd come through OK. It wasn't the disaster I thought it would be, I managed to pay the mortgage & feed us. That realisation, and a decent salary coming in again has allowed me finally to spend some money ( carefully controlled ) on myself.

I can so relate to this and wanted to give you a hug. We grew up very poor, but as adults, we are now very well off.
I still shop at Aldi even though we don’t need to, and sales and goodwill stores. We’ve just bought a very expensive house that we can well afford, but I lay awake worrying about it and grind my teeth.

My kids have never wanted for anything (which is great, I should be happy) so they have such a casual relationship to their possessions and money and it makes me anxious and annoyed that they can take it for granted like that.

Something that helps me is to save a lot, a large percentage, that could cover our lives for a long time or a lesser lifestyle for even longer. Once you’ve done that then you might start to enjoy it more? And also you have this one life. External things make it hard enough, don’t be hard on yourself and try to enjoy moments!
I also think counselling is a good idea, would it help to see it as an essential like groceries? Because I think it is that.

@SquarePeggyLeggy this may not be much help to the OP but your savings note resonated. DH and I are 60ish now and our days of big expenses are behind us. However, looking back there was a point in about 2003 when DH visibly relaxed about the future and it linked entirely to when we had enough to secure the children's and our futures.

We aren't big spenders but I've only shopped at Aldi once .

I am similar. For example, I have enough savings to do my dream holiday, and more, but don't, because I worry about depleting my savings and what if this, what if that. It's a security thing, linked to anxiety. I read another thread recently where someone had won the lottery and what struck me was where she said she slept significantly better now.

Therapy will pay you back so much more than what you put in.

I think its about having needs, wants, desires overlooked as a child and repeating that as an adult.

Also kicking yourself that you could have got 5% less on your property is normal!!! We all make financial mistakes.

All I have to say is time is short. Put enough money away for old age, enjoy hobbies, experiences, turn clothes shopping into a project about what image you want etc.

hello @FrustratinglyIrrational

You talk about this money issue of yours as irrational but it must be rational on some way of looking at it.

It must serve some sort of purpose that is helpful to you, even though it also causes misery.

I wonder what you are doing unconsciously in taking this approach to spending.

A lot of our deepest anxieties are about the magnitude of our desire - I mean desire in the widest terms. If one allows oneself to know about how much one desires, then you also open the way to the inevitable frustration of that desire. A frustration that is out of our own control - caused by the frustrating other person or other thing that won't acquiesce to our desire.

I wonder if in depriving yourself as you do it is a kind of way of titrating and moderating frustration and feeling deprived. Changing it from something that might be done TO you to something that at least you control.

Perhaps you "get in there first" with the deprivation. Then at least you are the author and the measurer of it.

I think @MistySkiesAfterRain is on to something.

Your frugal childhood - I guess frugal in terms of emotional abundance as well as material - has perhaps left you with an overwhelming flood of unmet needs and desires. Maybe it feels terrifying to open the floodgates on how much you do desire. What on earth would happen if you let all that flood out and allowed yourself to own your desire.

OP, I feel for you. Another survivor here. My DPs refused to buy even a school uniform, saying I wasn't worth it as I was only going to grow out of it. (I got my teachers to shame them into it.)

It was such a relief to turn 18 and know that I could spend my well-earned money however I chose -- and I did. When criticised I wagged my headmistressy finger and evoked the famous L'Oreal slogan Because I'm worth it. That shut the critics down!

Not sure that therapy will do more for you than will coming here to vent and discuss, frankly. I think you know what your priorities are when it comes to saving and spending. Have confidence. Be bold. Be adamant. Know that you can make the right decisions for yourself and your family. Ironically, my upbringing has made me very smart with money. A form of rebellion, perhaps.

I can definitely empathise. Growing up, my dad made some bad investments which left us very tight for money. Like you I'm now in a good financial position but I feel quilty and anxious about spending large sums. We're doing up our house at the moment and choosing kitchens, floors etc is a nightmare because I feel so much pressure to make the perfect choice and get value for money!

One thing that really helps for me is having a budget. I use the You Need A Budget app. This makes you assign all your money to a category, so rather than saving for the sake of saving you're building towards something you want. It helped me to reframe my thoughts and see savings as a path to a better quality of life rather than just a security blanket. I also put a few treats into my budget which get a fixed amount every month, and that way I don't feel guilty if I splurge on some new clothes because I can see that I have budgeted for this already, rather than worrying that I'm depleting our savings.

I think a therapist could be really helpful- I've had therapy (although not specifically for this issue) and it has helped me to change a lot of unhealthy thought patterns. If the idea of spending on a therapist seems too much right now, you could try putting some money aside for therapy from now on, and see if you feel any differently about it when you can see that figure building up?

Good luck xx

My DP’s dad is like this. Won’t spend money to the point where everything in his house is broken, falling to bits etc. It’s frustrating. He won’t even spend the money on petrol to drive to meet his son on Fathers Day - he’s 67 and he’d still rather be working and earning money. The number of times he’s cancelled meeting up with DP because “too much work on” and he wonders why they don’t have much of a relationship. He often criticises me for spending too much, but I’m very much of the mindset that if you keep using something that’s broken rather than fixing it early it’s false economy as you end up having to replace things rather than mend them. And in the case of cars etc it can be dangerous leaving things. I’ve worried many times he’ll have a serious accident because he drives his car knowing it’s got problems.

Growing up in poverty can produce post-traumatic stress like symptoms for some people and I wonder if this is the case for you. It seems to certainly have produced a lot of feelings of guilt and shame about spending money and these can be the toughest to overcome. I wonder what terrible consequences your anxiety is imagining will happen if you spend on something and what protective function all the guilt has for you? What negative outcome is it helping you avoid? A therapist could help you disentangle this and look at different ways to manage it. Acceptance and Commitment therapy (ACT) can be helpful for fixed beliefs and patterns because it emphasises your true values and taking action that moves you towards them rather than away from them. It also teaches techniques to help you to sit with difficult feelings rather than being stuck in patterns of taking action to avoid feelings (eg avoiding spending any money because you don’t want to feel guilt/anxiety/shame). A good therapist would also help you explore how it is for you to spend money on therapy and work through the feelings involved in that process.

I haven't rtft, but try to set a certain amount each month to spend on yourself. Say 150$ or whatever is reasonable with your salary and then force yourself to spend it on yourself and for something non essential. Say a nice blouse, manicure, experience etc . Do this for a few months and hopefully if will help because you are spending from a pot dedicated just for you