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Honest advice needed - am I crazy

109 replies

Bella1378 · 29/10/2019 15:32

I have been with my fiancée for two years and he proposed after just six months. The first year of our relationship was wonderful. I’d been through a terrible break up with an ex who had cheated on me, and it was refreshing to be with someone who was honest, loyal and transparent about everything. He was never sneaky or deceitful, sung my praises openly to all his friends and family, was happy to tell me anything and was just totally committed, kind, caring and supportive; I couldn’t believe my luck.

A few months after we got engaged, I started to experience horrible paranoia and suspicion about the most random things. I convinced myself that he must be cheating like my ex did with no evidence of this at all. I started questioning him constantly about his romantic history, all his exes, and became suspicious of almost any woman he interacted with. I accused him of lying about all kinds of stuff, I would try and find any evidence I could that he had been unfaithful. I found nothing. In return, he helped me realise that I was suffering from anxiety and depression, probably brought on by my previous relationship. He gave me full access to his phone and all his passwords in an effort to reassure me. He would sit with me for hours on end listening to my worries and responding to them. But it almost seemed like the more he reassured me the worse I became; as though I was subconsciously determined self harm by uncovering some wrongdoing on his part.

After a few months of this he understandably started to lose his patience. He began arguing with me and telling me how angry he was that I didn’t trust him when he had been totally faithful to me.

There was one woman in particular I was paranoid about. He had been close friends with her through work for years before he met me, but nothing romantic/sexual had ever happened between them. He was open with me about their friendship from the start, she was invited to our wedding, there were no red flags such as hiding her messages/calls etc, he was totally happy for me to see what they were talking about. She is attractive and when I asked him, he said he had fancied her when they first met years ago but that it had quickly turned platonic and they had never been more than mates.

One day I asked to see his phone because I just couldn’t stop the worrying. I went into their message thread and ended up scrolling all the way back, to years before he and I had even met. I saw that during our relationship, all his messages with her had been matey and non flirtatious; he had mentioned me and our engagement a few times and there was nothing suspicious about their interaction. However, when I scrolled back to the years before we had met and at the time he was single, there was definitely some flirty banter going on. Things like joking about whether they should hook up etc - she’d tell him about her latest date and he’d say ‘date me instead’ etc - but it did appear to be in a jokey way and there was lots of other general non flirty banter; they also called each other ‘mate’ and ‘bro’ and it was clear from the messages that they never actually hooked up, but there were definitely a few flirty light hearted undertones.

I told him I had read these messages. I accepted that they all took place before I had even met him, but I asked him why he had always insisted that their relationship was entirely platonic when he had clearly flirted with her for the duration of their friendship before he met me. He dismissed it as nothing and said it was just cheeky banter that he did with a lot of people when he was single, it didn’t mean anything and he never actually wanted anything to happen with her, and nothing ever did. I can’t stop dwelling on it. Is he lying/trying to pull the wool over my eyes? He keeps telling me that it’s just my anxiety and delusion but that’s hard to accept when I have seen plainly flirtatious messages in black and white. Am I over reacting- do I have genuine reason to worry or is he right?

OP posts:
Anotherlongdrive · 29/10/2019 18:17

You arent a monster. Abusers are human. People like to put labels like monster or 'inhumane' on it, because it helps people deal with the fact that another person could act in such a way.

You are human and you have had bad experiences. It's not an excuse for abusive but it's a factor.

If you arenr honest not talking therapy will work. So I guess you decide. Would you prefer to be honest in a safe and private setting or continue to abuse the man, you say, you love?

TowelNumber42 · 29/10/2019 18:39

First of all stop thinking about you. Yes get therapy asap but also end the relationship. It is making you devour yourself while hurting him.

When you are better then you can see if he is still available and interested in rekindling the relationship. This is your best chance of a solid long term relationship with him.

Staying with him shows that you are making it all about you and not caring for him.

Bella1378 · 29/10/2019 18:48

@TowelNumber42 this is easier said than done as I am currently six months pregnant with our first child.

OP posts:
rvby · 29/10/2019 18:50

How do you tell a therapist that you are a monster without them reporting you or judging you?

There's nothing to report. You aren't physically harming yourself or your DP. Therapists have an ethical accountability to hear you out, if you told a therapist you were shoplifting they wouldn't dob you in would they? They'd try to help you. If you said you were going to hurt yourself or someone else, that is the exception to that rule, as you can imagine.

Everyone judges everything all the time, that is inescapable. However, the point of a therapist is that they are literally trained to curtail their propensity to judge people. If you are worried about being judged, they're the best case scenario.

Your therapist can't help you or your DP if you don't tell the truth though, can you see that?

Can you experiment with just being open with the therapist? Worst case, they will not be supportive or helpful, and that is a relatively remote possibility. You can respond to that by walking out and finding a better therapist. There is no chance that you are going to be "reported" to anyone. Again there is nothing to report. Literally the worst possible thing that could happen is that the therapist isn't helpful so you find a different one.

Best case it helps a lot, really quickly, and things get better for you and DP, really quickly. Do you think taking that risk is worth it?

rvby · 29/10/2019 18:55

@Bella1378 have you told your midwife about the thoughts you are having xx

Bella1378 · 29/10/2019 18:57

@rvby yes and I have been referred to the perinatal team. Again though I am scared to tell them how emotionally abusive I am being for fear that they will take my baby away when he or she is born. I guess I have no other alternative though so will try to be honest.

OP posts:
Anotherlongdrive · 29/10/2019 19:13

You do need to be honest.

Because you will keep abusing your partner and then as your child gets older, possibly the child. If you start not believing them. Dont say it wont happen and you wouldnt do that to them. But if you could control it, you would.

First off they want to support you. Not take your child away. That's a last resort. But if you keep up the abuse, he could eventually leave and take the baby.

I refused to leave my children with my exh. Even though we patented completely 50:50
Leaving them with him, even though his abuse targeted only me, wasnt an option.

TowelNumber42 · 29/10/2019 19:18

Don't trust yourself. Muster up 15 seconds of courage, that's you need to tell DH you know you are ill, you want to get better, you need him to tell your midwife what's been going on, you can't trust yourself to tell them, you didn't at the last therapy.

Blurt it out fast. Then let him take the reins.

yukka · 29/10/2019 19:28

Oh op no one will take your baby away. The worries you have can be reduced or go completely if you get the right treatment and support. Being pregnant can make feelings worse due to the hormones in your body. I would recommend you discuss honestly with your oh tonight and get an appointment with GP tomo.

But as you have said, they can only help you feel better if you tell them the truth, loads of people go through what you are, you're not alone and the support network you can reach out to will know how to help.

No one needs to label you an abuser just yet. Just be honest with them about your thoughts and own your responsibility to get hell and get better.

You have a baby coming soon and they are going to need you to be well.

You can do this xx

rvby · 29/10/2019 19:32

Your worst case scenario, the one you imagine, is that your baby will be taken away from you. That's a fair thing to fear.

Here is a likely scenario if you disclose your symptoms:
-you tell midwife and therapist etc that you are ill and disclose the extent of your symptoms
-they do their jobs and help you.
-You have a chance to get better
-you are able to present for your new baby rather than sick with worry and feeling crazy
-your relationship with your partner heals and your family becomes stronger.
-you and baby and partner live happily ever after.

Here's a different scenario:
-you conceal your symptoms
-you have baby
-your symptoms worsen because of hormonal changes
-your partner breaks down
-you break down
-your family fractures and your second-worst nightmares come true in that he DOES leave you

Another scenario beyond that is that your actual worst nightmare comes true because your MH goes completely off the rails and he is forced to take full custody of baby. I.e. your baby IS taken off you.

If you want to prevent your worst fears from coming true, then the right step to take is to tell anyone and everyone who will listen that you are having a MH crisis and need help desperately x this is your chance to do right by baby, yourself and dp.

Bella1378 · 29/10/2019 19:36

I think I may have undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder. I am incapable of trust in a relationship. I spy and suspect and manipulate and control. I don’t want to do any of those things but it’s like there is a force within me that won’t allow me to relax and be happy. I do recognise that I am a disgusting person and I think it is just part of my genetic make up. This leads to a hopeless feeling as I’m not sure any therapist can change someone’s fundamental character. I do think people would be better off without me and yet when I express suicidal thoughts people are telling me that’s a hallmark of an abuser. I don’t know who I am anymore.

OP posts:
OliviaBenson · 29/10/2019 19:46

You seem to be casting yourself as a victim all the time, including in your last post.

Get help and fast or you could lose it all.

rvby · 29/10/2019 19:48

@Bella1378 Sweetheart, I'm going to pretend you have BPD ok. I'm answering as if you have that diagnosis because I want to comfort you:

This leads to a hopeless feeling as I’m not sure any therapist can change someone’s fundamental character BPD isn't actually to do with character, it has to do with emotional reactivity and emotional management / self soothing skills. Although it's currently classed as a personality disorder, there is HUGE controversy in the psychology community about that, because more and more it is emerging that it isn't to do with personality but may be something totally different.

That controversy aside, there is a really effective, tailored, structured therapy for BPD called Dialectical Behavioural Therapy (DBT). Despite what you have probably heard from laypeople, BPD is very very treatable - as long as you actually do the DBT therapy and properly engage in it.

I do recognise that I am a disgusting person and I think it is just part of my genetic make up. You do not have the information to make that assessment. You simply don't. BPD seems to occur in folk who have certain sensitivities in their make up, usually to do with how they incorrectly assess facial expressions and imagine they see danger or disgust in other people's reactions to them... that combined with really specific environmental factors can culminate in what we now call BPD.

Let's say that you do have a genetic component to what you are going through - that makes you the opposite of disgusting, my darling. It makes you sick for reasons that are beyond your control. It makes you someone who needs compassion and understanding and help to work against these elements that are making you so very unhappy. You wouldn't call someone with diabetes disgusting...

If you do have BPD, it feels like torture and I am just so deeply sorry that you are suffering like this.

But I want you to know that you are loved and wanted. No-one thinks you are disgusting or not worth living. They simply don't. At worst they don't understand you yet - and you can help to change that by being honest about what is happening in your head.

Please print out your posts in this thread and take them to someone who can help you. Help is there but you've got to reach out and grab someone's hand.

Elyat · 29/10/2019 19:52

OP you're not a disgusting person. Your mind has just got stuck in some unhealthy patterns.

Unlike most other pps seem to, I have had similar feelings to what you describe. I feel mostly nervous about pretty much any female in my OHs life. We've been together almost 15 years and it's only just starting abating in that the last few months I've realised I've been waiting for him to leave me for someone else. I've never been cheated on, I can only think it stems from rejection in childhood.

Anyway I recognise the feeling of not wanting any woman to think he fancies them - I hate the thought of women thinking they could have him if they wanted to. Kind of the way you describe, of them feeling sorry for me that they could steal him if they wanted. It's bizarre as I don't think he'd actually cheat. It's something to do with me thinking he's so great and out of my league that every other woman must want him and it's only a matter of time until he realises this. The difference between us is that it's stayed clear to me that my view is unreasonable and something to be personally worked on rather than something he needs to change or give me. I suspect if I had been badly cheated on it may have tipped me over the edge the way you have clearly been.

I can imagine those messages bothering me, too. But I think I'd recognise much more readily than you that the key is IT CHANGED WHEN HE WAS WITH YOU. If he was trying to play you, or pursue her, it wouldn't have changed.

So I echo what others say, get therapy and be honest. You can wait a few sessions til you're fully comfortable but you do need to be honest. Look at it this way - being totally honest feels unbearable. But so is living the way you're living. You can't keep living feeling this way, and your relationship will eventually collapse as a result. The short term discomfort of being honest in therapy will be the key to unlocking serious longer term comfort.

If you don't want to mix it too much with your antenatal care you don't have to. Go private and explain you're struggling but that you're funding therapy.

SouthernComforts · 29/10/2019 19:54

You can be mentally ill and act in abusive ways. So feeling suicidal is not abusive, but threatening suicide as a way to control your partner even further would be. (I'm not saying you've done this). I didn't realise you were pregnant earlier, you need help more than ever. Pregnancy and birth can trigger MH issues in women who never previously suffered any, you MH is probably especially vulnerable right now. Talk to your gp and midwife again urgently and tell the truth.

Your relationship is another matter. You shouldn't be with anyone with your mindset. It's terrible timing to have a baby in the middle of all this, but that can't be undone. You'll just have to get through this, get help and try to co -parent in a sane way.

JenniferM1989 · 29/10/2019 20:00

You know who you are OP? Someone that has been treated badly in the past and let it manifest into a serious anxiety disorder that has taken hold. You aren't an abuser, you aren't a monster and you aren't disgusting. You don't do these things to satisfy a need for control, you do these things because the anxiety is controlling you. You overthink, question and get upset about things because you have an anxiety disorder. In the midst of serious anxiety, you don't know what you are doing and who you are. You'll feel disgusted with yourself after checking your partners phone and giving into the anxiety then get anxious about what you have done so it just keeps on going.

Firstly, you need to speak to your midwife and let her know that you are struggling badly with anxiety. Mainly to do with trust and boundaries. You don't want to have the baby and for this anxiety to shift the focus onto the baby and be panicking about everything, you need it to stop or at least for you to get some control back over it.

You need to start not caring about these other women. So what if he used to fancy this woman? I'm sure you've fancied plenty of men in the past but deep down you know you wouldn't do anything about it or want a relationship with them, it's just a crush. They aren't better than you or getting more of your partners affection. They are just women that are there in the background of his life. He isn't going to think about them much, he's more likely to be thinking about you, the woman he lives with, speaks to everyday, the mother to his child. He'll he angry with you, happy with you, excited with you... all he ever did was fancy this/those women. They didn't receive his catalogue of emotions that way you have. No matter what happens, you will always mean more to him than someone he briefly fancied and flirted with. You've made more of an impact but you know now that it needs to be a good impact. Speak to your midwife and she will point you in the right direction to get help

Bella1378 · 29/10/2019 20:27

I really appreciate all of your responses. I appreciate as someone said that I appear to be casting myself as a victim, and that wallowing in self pity will not help me. This discussion has motivated me to seek professional guidance and to do the best I can for my baby and partner.

OP posts:
BeUpStanding · 29/10/2019 23:24

Being honest and seeking help is the only way for things to get better. Acknowledging that is huge progress, you have made the first step! Talk to people. Be honest. It can and it will get better Flowers

And keep coming back here for support. MN is amazing! People want to help you, your partner, and your baby.

Bella1378 · 02/11/2019 21:27

Can I just ask - going back briefly to the original post. I don’t think I made it clear exactly what he told me - which is that although he fancied her when they first met, his feelings soon disappeared as he found her personality to be a turn off (said she was superficial and a bit of an airhead), but that as a friend he valued her and they were close. My question is: because I subsequently found that he had flirted with her over message when he was single (and not just when he first met her - it was on and off for the duration of their friendship until he met me) does this mean he lied to me when he claimed that he didn’t find her attractive during their friendship?

OP posts:
rvby · 02/11/2019 21:33

@Bella1378

You know that every time you get reassurance for what you're obsessing over, it makes the obsession worse?

Are you aware that you're injuring yourself by coming here seeking reassurance?

Your dp hasn't done anything wrong. You need to get treatment. Have you told your GP or perinatal team what's going on? Have you told your therapist? Your feelings will get more and more distressing until you reach out for help x

Bella1378 · 02/11/2019 21:44

I’m not asking for reassurance, I just want honest objective opinions as to whether this means he lied. As I’m not sure people would have flirty banter with someone if they didn’t find them attractive.

OP posts:
rvby · 02/11/2019 21:46

You know exactly what I mean Bella. You're being disingenuous. I mean that kindly.

Your problem is not what your dp did, thought, said, felt. You are having a mental health crisis. Have you engaged with your perinatal team or counselor about what you have been going through?

Bella1378 · 02/11/2019 21:49

Yes, I’m seeking professional help for my anxiety, but it would also really help to get opinions on here re the question I just asked.

OP posts:
rvby · 02/11/2019 21:50

It won't help. What you're asking for will reinforce and worsen your anxiety.

I'll repeat what I said -

You know that every time you get reassurance for what you're obsessing over, it makes the obsession worse?

Are you aware that you're injuring yourself by coming here seeking reassurance?

Bella1378 · 02/11/2019 22:00

Reinforce my anxiety why? Because the honest answer is that he did lie?

OP posts: