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is anybody there who could just be with me now, sorry

96 replies

elementofsurprise · 07/06/2015 23:04

it's ver bad, very alone, tried to tell SO he just annoyed saying im bringing him down. i see no way out. trying to hold on, sorry, not sure what to do fel so worthless no help

OP posts:
IceBeing · 08/06/2015 16:43

Physical and mental pain are so very different aren't they.

I had a major depressive episode followed by snapping my achilles tendon...and the over whelming relief of the physical injury was almost unbelievable. Suddenly people are there helping you - thinking in advance how to help you out. Most importantly you have a reason to tell yourself why you are struggling.

It was a million times easier to cope once I bust my leg than before.

We are brought up to respect physical illness. To give ourselves time to recover, to do less, to ask for help etc. We are brought up with almost no knowledge of respect for mental illness. We don't give ourselves time, we don't accept we can to less and we almost never ask for help.

Imagine you had cancer...you would ask SO for help coping....and if it came back after a year symptom free...you would ask again and not feel guilty doing so!

Why is depression/BPD different? It was bad last week, or last month or last year...and now it is again. Remember that no matter how hard it is for SO to support you it is you that is in pain day in day out and struggling to cope. So wishes you were better...well I am sure you wish you were better too! With knobs on - I would guess....

elementofsurprise · 08/06/2015 16:44

NotQuite I will do that. I thought about it for ages but wasnt sure where to post, what with all the psych stuff. And kept hearing the MH team in my mind saying that was attention seeking to make two posts...

iceBeing unfortunately he doesn't seem to differentiate between levels of depression. If I explain I'm having a particularly hard time he says "You're always having a hard time". So to him I'm always depressed. And yet, if I'm perfecly happy and smiley spending an evening togther, it's like he forgets I'm struggling at all. So it's damned if I do and damned if I don't - I can't argue that no, I am not always this depressed if he uses it against me at other times to expect me to be fine!

I tried telling him roughly how I felt and where I was on the down/less down cycle, every time I saw him, to make the point, but it got a bit weird and hard to judge. And depressing, when lots of awful days in a row.

OP posts:
IceBeing · 08/06/2015 16:52

"your always having a hard time"

Can you imagine someone coming in from a chemo session and saying " I am having a hard time today" and anyone, ANYONE responding "your always having a hard time"

IF that doesn't prove to you how wrong SO's responses to you are then nothing will....

Partially it is to do with societies misuse of the word 'depression'. Did you ever here someone say they felt a bit 'melanoma' today? Or a bit 'broken legged'?

But everyone's a bit depressed or a bit OCD

Remember that depression is something that can be measured on a chart from day to day using various metrics and can be as easily scientifically parameterized as measuring a persons pain levels from day to day.

IceBeing · 08/06/2015 16:55

good grief my spelling is bad today...and the grammar...well!

elementofsurprise · 08/06/2015 17:08

It's a bit complicated because he's depressed/anxious too. Mainly at this stage from a job he hates/that's terrible (he's just been signed off for a bit, hoping that will help and get him jobhunting... ). I think he might be projecting massively sometimes, treating me how he treats himself...
But it's so hard, when he was v low I tried to get him to sit out in the sun, cuddled him, listened when he needed to talk. But I can ususally do that even when v low myself. Whereas I feel like I'm a burden to him, I just realised that the situation yesterday, if the roles were reversed, I'd have called him way earlier and made a point of seeing him at some point! Yet we had a bizarre phone conversation very late and ended up feeling I was somehow fucking up. I didn't mention anything (didn't occur to me he'd done anything wrong) and was just trying to be positive about his day etc., then he asked how I was and I said "Still very low", then he started saying I needed to seize the day (like all the lovely, professional, non-fucked up women he was with yesterday!) Its a bit like, um, look at yourself! (hated job before he started it, yet has never looked for a new one)

But I just feel alone and shite and knowing he's been a tit doesn't help. Because the problem seems to be the same with everyone. I'm not in a position to meet new people. Although I didnt used to get this socially anxious... was growing up but learnt to socialise as young adult... but experience brought it back. I feel like one of those people you used to get in the first rounds of X-factor... for years I thought I could sing but found out the hard way I can't. I feel like that about life, and belonging anywhere.

OP posts:
elementofsurprise · 08/06/2015 17:10

I must indeed be depressed, even my internal grammr nazi is silent!

OP posts:
mylaptopismylapdog · 08/06/2015 17:39

iceBeing is so right about attitudes to cancer and depression.
Apologies if someone has already suggested this but it is possible to get a pelvic infection after having a coil fitted and I know from experience that depression likes to add to the misery if you at all under the weather. Have you been to the doctor to check that out?
Whatever your SO is doing your posting on here and talking is proving you are strong.

Italiangreyhound · 08/06/2015 17:53

elementofsurprise thinking of you today.

mylaptopismylapdog · 08/06/2015 17:58

Sorry reading that back it seems a bit brusque. I have had bouts of depression and the feelings of isolation and withdrawal on and of for about 20 years and at times been so socially anxious I was agoraphobic so it sounds quite familiar.

IceBeing · 08/06/2015 18:15

element I think reversing roles is a good way to see things. More in the line of 'how would you treat SO if he came to you in this state'...but also how would you treat yourself if you were someone different coming for advice / support.

It seems to me to be universal that people who are depressed can express compassion to everyone but themselves. Maybe try being kind to yourself by imagining what you would say to stranger who felt they way you do now.

I always end up crying after people have sought support from me - because I give them the support and compassion I am withholding from myself...I think it is a sort of release...but it would be great if I could stop seeing myself as worthless directly!

It is so hard to get out there and speak to people when it feels like the world has it in for you. But without human interaction, without compassion, caring, plain simple communication we will all go mad.

It is great that you are on here talking. Nothing you have written makes me think you are anything but someone suffering from an illness. You seem intelligent, coherent, compassionate to others, and in a heap of pain not of your own choosing. Oh and brave. Really brave and strong too. If you can make that impression on me then you can on others too.....

IceBeing · 08/06/2015 18:17

Im off to toddler wrangle now - but will check in later (or tell me to bug off if I'm bothering you).

textfan · 08/06/2015 21:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IceBeing · 09/06/2015 09:13

Hope you are having a better day today OP.

mylaptopismylapdog · 09/06/2015 11:30

Thinking of you.Hope you are feeling better today

elementofsurprise · 09/06/2015 13:21

Thank you. Saw SO breifly last night. Finding him a bit patronising - all very "I know best" and the sort of head-tilt slightly sad I'm-being-so-reasonable look. Grr. But actually makes me feel very alone and sad. He started to give me one of his lectures (just before leaving so I'm not supposed to have time to reply) and I just stopped him and said I felt shite and was trying to be ok and couldn't deal with any more criticism. I asked if he'd re-read out txt conversation and taken it what I'd said (including how difficult it was when he just dismissed what I was saying!) and he said "No, I said I wasn't going to." Yet he expects telling me he cares is someow magically going to make me happy?

I feel alone and scared of everyone, I thought he was a nice man. When he is nice we get on really well (most of the time) and he seems like he understands and apologises for being an idiot. So why suddenly like this again? He also says stuff, sort of very loving and like he's a bit worried he's not good enough for me, teling me I can't understand how much he loves me... then grinds me down in other ways. I fee like it's on the borderline of an emotioally abusive relationship, and that's frightening. I don't know how to make friends with normal nice people! Because I am not normal they don't want me. Im sorry. Just feeling very alone irl.

OP posts:
IceBeing · 09/06/2015 17:17

Sorry to hear that element . I think the problem with other halves is that they can forget this is going on. They have other stuff in their lives and it can be a jolt to suddenly remember everything isn't how it 'should' be. I am constantly caught out by Dh having and OCD attack. DH can get caught out by a depressive episode from me too. Most of the time we rub along fine - and that makes the crunches all the harder when they happen.

The other problem is one of feeling like you are giving a lot and it still not being enough. But sometimes it just isn't enough and that is hard too.

You are both being pushed to your limits by this illness. It is horrible and unfair on your both. Could you tell SO that you understand it is hard on him but that it is really even harder on you? Maybe shake up SO's perspective a bit?

What is the primary thing stopping you from getting out and meeting people IRL? Could you join a sports club or something...where there is little to no requirement or even expectation to socialize beyond telling people your name and you could step in slowly?

I found a badminton club a godsend from that point of view. IT is fine to rock up pay your subs and play then leave basically without speaking to anyone. Then after a while I would allow people to get into a 'how are you' 'fine' exchange with me and things creeped up from there to actually having a few people I would call friends through it.

It got me out of the house and interacting with people...normal people...which I really needed.

elementofsurprise · 09/06/2015 19:33

I suppose it's just the effort required to be somewhere on time, be up and dressed etc. I can't guarantee that at any point, I have to rally the forces just to pop to the shop (try to make sure I leave flat every day). Actually only make it in person to about 1/3 of my therapy appts. It's the difficulty of putting my 'outside face' on, I just can't interact normally when it's bad. It's all I can do at these times to not completely lose it/hurt myself/whatever. The only way I've found to cope with this is the basic, have a cup of tea (which can feel like a complicated process when mind racing and hurting) curl up in a duvet, maybe watch something funny. Avoid people til it's over, because the risk of them taking it badly is too great. (A lot of the bad memories involve this). I used to try and push myself more but it would go spectacularly wrong. This hiding method works for a few hours or days but not if the v low patch goes on longer.

I would, in theory, like to join a club. I'd also like to do an OU course and set up my small business (can do this whilst still on sickness benefits). However, everything just seems to take so long, and be so much effort.. like it takes all day just to manage to have a shower, go to supermarket, eat something healthy, tidy up. Basics. Occasional bit of a hobby. I feel really beyond hope sometimes, because I have tried - for so long - all the advice. Since I was a teen, I have absorbed advice from older people - I threw myself into living my dreams, I travelled a fair bit, I knew I needed to be sensible and have a career (scuppered by mental ill health), I tried to learn and understand and discover more about the world. When depressed, I've signed uo to courses, tried to get out, tried to do the right thing, sought help when I knew I needed to. But it doesn't seem to work. Or at least, at the current rate I'd be 'better' in roughly 500 yrs... It just feels like the bit that is missing is other people, love, community. I can't do that on my own. I actually know a lot of people I get on with - but never quite crossing that line to be 'real' friends... I feel like I'm an 'extra', to pad out crowd scenes, people seem to like me but I'm not part of any particular sub-group in the social circle. I think people view me subtley differently because they know I'm 'mental'. Not nasty, just... different.

I'm sorry to sound so negative, it is actually helping a bit to write it down. Had a better day today, tiny bit of gardening in the sunshine. SO kindly picked up some things in town for me to help with that. So that was nice. Just enjoying the birds singing, kids screaming- and light evening now.

OP posts:
IceBeing · 10/06/2015 00:21

It is nice to be out and feel the sun on you isn't it?

My therapist refers to the phenomenon of not being able to move from thought to action as 'magnetic brain'. Like the thought is magnetically pinned to your brain and won't allow it to progress to action.

I had a touch of magnet brain last week. Randomly took me 3 hours to get out of bed...and I was busting for the loo too.

Thankfully a small hiccup for me rather than long term stickiness you seem to be having.

The thing with the people who like you who haven't quite crossed the line into friends is familiar too....I used to make friends fast and deep, but now I am stuck at 'person who will listen compassionately' and it is because I am unwilling to push over the line - mostly out of fear of being hurt.

mylaptopismylapdog · 10/06/2015 10:52

What you and iceberg say about about feeling a bit to the side in friendships chimes with me,(I also identify with the person who listens compassionately). However I have found that I get a lot of pleasure out of incidental encounters with people and the company of my dog. If you like dogs, is there a rescue centre near you where you could volunteer as a walker? The walk would do you both good and at least you would probably meet other dog walkers. At the one near us you don't need to commit to it so just turn up if you can and walkthe dog at the right time and sign up.May be from there if walking appeals you could join a group I have always found that people tell me more about themselves when they are beside me so I suspect that doing something alongside someone as opposed to face to face is helpful.
Whatever you decide to do try remember doing anything when you feel like this is a win and there is quite a large sub group of us,( can't remember the percentages), of out here who find your experiences quite normal.

mylaptopismylapdog · 10/06/2015 11:02

Also thank you I have been on here for ages but have a thing about thinking I can't write so this is the most I've ever written in posts, so actually trying to help you has helped me.

elementofsurprise · 10/06/2015 12:54

The problem is, I can't interact normally when very low. Not even vaguely normally. Basically, when it's very bad I just have to distract myself constantly, in a way where nothing is required of me. I find it incredibly hard to focus on what someone's saying and take it in and display all the right facial expressions and things (ie. not sat there obviously weeping or face scrunched up in pain), because inside it's like a big scream in my head. I also become quite childlike (apparently) as at all the painful points in my life that is the mental state I have regressed to, a terrified child.

The other day my friend was here and I kept randomly apologising, I tried to explore my mind and work out why and I basically just felt terrified of him and like I needed to constantly apologise for existing and being so shameful and wrong, and scared he was going to be cross with me (he's completely lovely and the only person who can be around me when it's bad without problems). I know that's ridiculous, but it feels like that when it's really bad. I also lose about 3/4 of my vocabularly at these points so it's very difficult to communicate.

The dogwalking thing sounds really good though. I'm more into small furries that need cuddles/handling but all sounds like a good idea. The problem is it's all sort of "stage B" whereas I'm still on "stage A" - "how to look/act normal enough for long enough".

Like I said, I used to push myself and it would go horribly wrong. Like if it was dogwalking, say, something would happen - say the dog starts barking madly and trying to lunge at another dog that is also barking madly. I'd be ok as long as it was an 'emergency', ie. I'd make sure they didn't end up fighting. But as soon as I was round the corner, I'd feel shaky and frightened and be unable to stop the tears. The shame of trying to explain to kind passers-by when feeling terrified and dissociated makes it worse, and I'll end up bing forced (perhaps by a kindly person fom the rescue centre who has to come and rescue me) to go to A&E or GP's because, oh shit, actually you seem really unwell. Sitting in A&E for hours when feeling like a worthless piece of shit is a horrible and very triggering experience. I have also lost friends this way, when they see me when I'm 'fine' or a bit low, then I push myself to go to some event of other and fuck up because something happens that I can't deal with in that state.

I have wondered if I have Asperger's, but the strong traits I struggle with like not being able to cope with the slightest change to plans are only a problem when I'm feeling very bad and need to whole thing 'sorted' in my head beforehand so I know what to expect. I've travelled solo before, I'm not incapable in general, just when I'm feeling shite. Although in many ways it is actually easier to do stuff alone than with others when feeling rubbish, because there isn't the added pressure of acting normal - just getting the thing done in whatever haphazard way.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be negative, I just don't know anymore. All the steps for beating depression seem to basically be stuff that I could do fine if I wasn't depressed! There's seems to be an assumption that if you're functioning at an even lower level, you'll have loads of input from professionals or be in hospital, or something.

Doing anything is a win, yes. This is why I love my tiny but intensive (no corner wasted) veggie garden. A stray weed here, and an hour later you realise you've done quite a lot.

I'm sorry to hear you two have had similar experiences with making friends. Isn't it strange if there's so many who feel like that? I mean, looking at modern society it makes sense that people are more isolated overall, but surely if people are feeling and articulating this they'd all be making the effort and thus bumping into each other? Hmm.

OP posts:
mylaptopismylapdog · 10/06/2015 15:12

You are not being negative you are talking about how you feel which is fine. Recognising where you are and having a friend who you can have around and your veggie garden are enough for now ( personally I have a tapestry which I get out when I can't do anything else,must be about20years old by now!). Knowing that this is something that you have got through before is good too. Again reading your last post all of it seems familiar but you are not a worthless piece of shit you are a person who isn't feeling well enough to tackle things. I have a friend who has had depression and heart op and lung cancer she says the depression was the worst of the three, that is not to belittle the others at all. As regards to society I think unfortunately the historical view of any sort of mental illness is not helping but is changing so we probably do spend our time bumping into each other but feel society isn't yet up to us all owning up. When I have told people they have said you don't seem like a depressive, so when I feel it is necessary to explain things I have started to say to people I know it may not look like it but I am not coping well atm. There are things online. I use a tool that sends me a message to get me to rate my mood and has a graph somehow for me seeing that like investments it can go up as well as done can be comforting when I am down. This may seem impossible at the moment but writing 3 things you are grateful for each day helps me sometimes.From what you say having the laparoscopy seems to have triggered this. Generally I know I have have less energy than others and tiredness is often my trigger. Could you view yourself as being in the convalescent stage before moving on to recovery?o

mylaptopismylapdog · 10/06/2015 15:15

Sorry don't know where that last o came from.

IceBeing · 10/06/2015 16:12

Sorry to hear you have trouble speaking when you are low. I briefly couldn't allow people to say anything positive about me in conversation. Even things like 'I see you sent an email' I would end up challenging as it wasn't very good or I shouldn't have etc.

Just nonsense that made people look at me all strangely. One guy just stopped me mid flow, hugged me and said he understood. It was the strangest experience but it made me realise that when people respond to me unexpectedly I don't think 'what the hell is up with him today' I just think 'oh, that was odd...I hope they are okay'.

So why shouldn't I expect the same from others?

Actually people do look out for each other, and suddenly descending into incoherent babble is something that people will take for what it is - a sign that you need help and are having a serious problem.

It would be a great shame if people with epilepsy never left the house in case anyone encountered them having an episode and needing help. It would be a great shame if us mental health episode suffers felt the same way.

I can heartily recommend the informal badminton club thing. There is no responsibility to turn up, you can stay as long or as short as you like. Talk as much or as little as you like. And they are full of other people with odd problems, ticks and sudden episodes of physical or mental instability.

Its very live and let live....

IceBeing · 10/06/2015 16:13

mylaptop well done on getting posting! small steps...small steps...we will get there!