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Mental health

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Original poster

Mindfulness. Is it for real?

78 replies

orangeandemons · 10/06/2013 18:20

So attended a session today...we spent 15 minutes looking at a raisin.

I feel really really uncomfortable with it. I do not want to share anythIng with the other group members, although they all seem happy with it. I don't want to lie down in front of complete strangers. I hated it. It seemed really really pretentious and up your own bum. Is this how it is meant to be?

OP posts:

Unfortunatelyanxious · 10/06/2013 18:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

holmessweetholmes · 10/06/2013 19:02

I haven't been to a mindfulness group, but I've read a lot about it, including about the raisin exercise, which is about truly paying attention to the details of something, to encourage being thoroughly 'present' in the moment. Almost all of the stuff I've read about mindfulness really made sense to me, but I guess how it comes across will largely depend on your group leader, the others in your group, and how comfortable you are with group activities.
I am very anti all things woo and anything which sounds like new age nonsense, but to me mindfulness just seems like a sensible way of life. Maybe it will grow on you?

holmessweetholmes · 10/06/2013 19:05

Unfortunatelyanxious - afaik mindfulness never tells you to try and stop thoughts, rather to acknowledge them and let them pass.

fanjobiscuits · 10/06/2013 19:05

Yes for real and I am sceptical about woo stuff too.

holmessweetholmes · 10/06/2013 19:07

Apologies for the hailstorm of posts but maybe you could try reading a book on mindfulness or look at some websites to get more of an idea of whether it appeals to you.

MajesticWhine · 10/06/2013 19:11

Yes it's for real and it works - there is a growing evidence base for it especially in treating anxiety or depression. I guess it's not for everyone. The raisin thing definitely didn't work for me because I absolutely hate raisins.

dirtywindows · 10/06/2013 19:13

I did a mindfulness course a year ago and we also started with the staring at a raisin. I found it really uncomfortable but as it went along I learnt some valuable skills which I still use. Like stopping and analysing my body and thoughts when I'm feeling stressed - it really helps me to relax and keep perspective. I dreaded the last day of the course which was a full day of silence - including lunch. I usually can't shut up, hate silences in conversations and eating alone - but I actually quite enjoyed it - total surprise to me! I must confess that I have never mastered the 'pause' when I'm about to blow though.....

OneHolyCow · 10/06/2013 19:15

What if you lie down at home and not share in the group if you don't want to? The lying down for the body-scan, is that what you are referring to? You can do it at home with a guided meditation if you like to try.
It has helped me a lot and the way I use or do it is still really helpful. Am not exaggerating to say it has been life changing.
It is not meant to be pretentious. I can understand your resistance to group things, I must admit I have similar aversions I think. I first did a MBSR course (the 8 weeks) by myself at home, with the book. Now I am much more comfortable in groups and actually like meditating in some of them.
I'd say give it another go. It is real.

Original poster

orangeandemons · 10/06/2013 19:15

But how does it work? How does it affect recurrent depression.? Are you meant to concentrate on a raisin in the middle of all your angst?

I felt no desire to share any of my raisin experience with the rest of the group, but they all seemed fine. I don't want to do this stuff in front of strangers. I felt like the naughty non compliant schoolgirl who had missed the main point of the session.

Then the person leading it kept saying everyone's raisin experience was fascinating. Surely surely they can't ever be described as that? Can they? Just felt it was too woo and hippy like for me. I was brought up to never trust a hippie

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bassetfeet · 10/06/2013 19:17

I am a true convert to mindfulness. But never in a group setting . That would have me distracted and tense .
Got a long way to go with it but am finding it easier to do as I practice .

It takes time and patience but works . It helps me hugely .

The names to look out for are Jon Kabat Zinn or Mark Williams.[in my opinion]
Some you tube stuff out there with Zinn and Williams has an excellent book and CD.

OneHolyCow · 10/06/2013 19:24

No no no, not concentrating on a bloody raisin when you're depressed! It is about being with yourself as you are, watching emotions and thoughts pass trough you without identifying with them. See the wave, not be the sea in woo woo talk.
Some hippies are really smart you know, actually
But anyway, no it is about not getting or staying stuck in yourself, your thoughts. You know how you can get stuck in ruminations, thinking in circles and hoisting up the judgy pants? This is about observing (hence the raisin but that doesn't do it for me either). Observe what goes on, in your mind and in your body, in a different way than you are ( probably) used to. It is about compassionate detachment, if you like. Not going where your thoughts or emotions go, but watch them come and go. It is really interesting when you get into it. The mind is a fascinating thing and getting to know it's tricks is quite a trip.

Original poster

orangeandemons · 10/06/2013 19:24

I think it's the group thing I don't like. I am really not interested in sharing anything at in a group including raisins. I hate hate talking about myself in this situation and am not interested in other people wanting to share. I just want to cut the crap and get on with it. I hate touchy freely stuff

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NeverKnowinglyUnderstood · 10/06/2013 19:25

I agree with bassetfeet
I watched a googlesession with Jon Kabat Zinn on you tube and he just spoke so much sense.

I have since been trying to practice with the help of a cd.

For my understanding it is about being accepting of our present without always feeling the need to be calmer, stronger, happier, healthier etc.

About realising that when we look at things in their current state it is ok to just be ok.

Last night I spent 35 minutes before going to be just acknowledging what different parts of my body felt. from the tips of my toes up each leg through my torso. from my finger tips up each arm and up to the top of my skull. Focusing on the feelings that occur in my body when a breath comes in and goes out. and not feeling the need to challenge any of the things I find, just to accept them for what they are.

Original poster

orangeandemons · 10/06/2013 19:26

Feely stuff

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NeverKnowinglyUnderstood · 10/06/2013 19:27

x posts oneholycow has just said it 1million times better than my effort

Original poster

orangeandemons · 10/06/2013 19:27

But I am on meds for all my issues which make me fall asleep. So when we did the big 40 minute meditation, I fell asleep, and I did last time too.

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OneHolyCow · 10/06/2013 19:29

You got to get in touch with yourself though, to get out of recurring depressions, that's the thing. Not so much touchy feely with others, but with yourself to start with yes you do.

OneHolyCow · 10/06/2013 19:31

Oh yes, the falling asleep thing. That is fine, don't worry. Just do it as long as you can. It is not a problem.

Original poster

orangeandemons · 10/06/2013 19:34

I just hated it hated it. Hated the way everyone wanted to talk about themselves. I was absolutely squirming with uncomfortableness. It stuck right in my throat. Almost like revulsion

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Unfortunatelyanxious · 10/06/2013 19:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

holmessweetholmes · 10/06/2013 19:49

Maybe you could try it on your own by working through a book then. I second the Jon Kabat Zinn recommendation. Actually, I do get what you mean about the yuckiness of group sharing. I don't think I'd like it either. And, as someone else said upthread, I think I'd find it actively distracting.
As an aside, I wondered about some kind of ongoing mindfulness thread... maybe a bit less yucky to share when it's words on a screen rather than face to face . I could do with something to keep me on track with my mindfulness practice - every time I lapse, life tends to go a bit wonky!

Original poster

orangeandemons · 10/06/2013 19:57

We have things to listen to which we have been given. Have just found something on poetry in the bumph which is making me squirm even more

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elfycat · 10/06/2013 20:05

I tried group mindfullness and found it really hard. And I do group meditations quite often. I found that I had an inner voice that was giving me a somewhat ironic take on what the group was doing. Eventually I was able to detach from that voice and observe what it was doing/saying.

But like everything it takes a bit of practice and acceptance so if it's a course try to attend a few sessions and see if it takes. If you don't want to share that should be OK and I've done that before now. Falling asleep is fine too. Think of it as completely relaxing and letting your mind mull over what you've been doing. I often nap after studying for this reason.

Oh but I'm a bit hippy and woo, and with my non-woo friends' encouragement I am going to take further steps into hippiness. So beware what I say

elfycat · 10/06/2013 20:11

Ohhh poetry (Literature and creative writing student). Do you have to listen to it, read it, write it?

Poetry isn't that hard once you get the hang of it - honest. I had to write it for an assignment and it wasn't the end of the world. I'm picking poems in 2 out of 3 OU exam questions on Thursday they gave us the works to study but no idea of the question

If you need a bit of practical help breaking into a poem pm me. I'd be happy to help (after Thursday ideally).

Original poster

orangeandemons · 10/06/2013 20:39

We have copies of poems to read? why? Why? So so pretentipus

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