What could be different in mental health care, what helps, and what have you found to be useful reading?

[OwFriggingOw]

First off - this is a thread inspired by another thread - not about another thread.

I am a lecturer who teaches mainly MH nursing students, but also Adult, Child and Learning Disability field nurses about MH, and also occasionally medical students. I have no agenda for this thread bar a genuine desire to listen, share ideas, and have an open discussion about what is helpful / less so. I worked in NHS MH for 13 odd years.

In case anyone links the other threads that inspired this thread - I have been comissioned to edit a book about people's experiences (service users and carers / family / friends) within MH services and with MH issues. NONE OF THE POSTS HERE WILL BE USED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM FOR THIS BOOK. You have my ABSOLUTE word on that. Similarly, NONE of the posts here will be used in any of my teaching.

My aim in starting this stems from several PM's and several on-thread comments about how this would be useful/ I hope it can be a helpful, supportive and productive meeting place for thoughts and ideas about what people have found helpful with regards MH care / services / support (statutory and non statutory) and what has been less helpful. Most importantly with regards the less helpful - what can be done differently?

And - beacuse I like books - maybe we can share reading ideas :)

Would it be helpful if I shared parts of my long thread from earlier regarding what I see as needed, without any other details from the thread?

'And if I am discerning how people will feel, then could the same not be said of those who assume that people will be upset by this thread, for example?'

You are stating as a fact that people who like you are dissatisfied must feel a certain way (i.e.. like you) while I am suggesting that there may be people lurking whose response to this thread nobody can predict and that hence restraint and responsibility should be the order of the day.

There is an important difference.

we have one here yellow. the report button is your friend ;)

mathanxiety, I think what I found offensive was your assumption that ALL people with MH issues cannot evaluate or make decisions about information given. Yes there are some very unwell people out there who may be affected by this information because their processing skills are off due to their illness, but equally there are unwell people out there who can make decisions for themselves. There is also lots of information out there about sectioning, some of it true, some untrue, should all of this be deleted? The OP can be a hairy lorry driver for all I care, I see this thread as sharing information, not stating facts. Or should I post that on x ward on y date z nurse was offensive to me - is that sort of information the only sort that is acceptable.

I am in crisis, I am currently a risk to myself, what should I do? Should I avoid all internet/TV/people in case I am triggered? Should I move into A&E, spend all day on the phone to crisis in between their visits?

I would always suggest to someone who has thoughts of harming themselves or has harmed themselves that they attend A&E.

Should Mumsnet delete all threads asking for experience because no positive impact can happen? What about people sharing their experiences of health visitors, or medical doctors? Surely misinformation could seriously affect vulnerable people reading those threads.

I can assume/think/feel anything I like, as can anyone. I also have first hand experience so there is my evidence. Do you disbelieve me? Actually FWIW I have recounted very little of my experience, focusing on the recovery.

Out of interest, would you be challenging this thread if it were entitled differently? For example "I had a shit time of in in the MH service, anyone else?"

And, as you have addressed most of my points in my post, would you comment on my last point?

Hello all
Sorry that we have been a bit slow on the uptake in stepping in here.
In the meantime we would remind you that our guidelines do not prevent any one from posting in any topics or threads but that we ask our posters to maintain a civil tone with one another and that if there's one thing people can do with, it's some moral support
THANKS ALL

xpost

'I can assume/think/feel anything I like, as can anyone. I also have first hand experience so there is my evidence. Do you disbelieve me? Actually FWIW I have recounted very little of my experience, focusing on the recovery.'

It is not my place to reassure you that you can think and feel anything you like. That is a given.
What you can't do is assume that you can present your thoughts or feelings as applicable to others.

Your own experience is one person's experience. It is not necessarily the experience of anyone else and you cannot assume that to be the case.

You also can't present things you believe to be true about the MH system as a whole as fact unless you present evidence.

Math you are trying desperately to make the thread what you predicted.
The people of this thread who find it helpful aren't letting you

Math, do you ever go onto the birth threads that talk about the variable service that people have recieved and make it clear to them that their opinions can't be extrapolated to the whole NHS?
you have made your point perfectly clear.. why don't you feel able to step away?

Fluffy: 'I think what I found offensive was your assumption that ALL people with MH issues cannot evaluate or make decisions about information given. Yes there are some very unwell people out there who may be affected by this information because their processing skills are off due to their illness, but equally there are unwell people out there who can make decisions for themselves.'

I have made it abundantly clear at every juncture that it is those who are unable to evaluate information or comments on a public forum because their illness has impaired their critical faculties that I am concerned about.

I have also made it abundantly clear that I am concerned about families who have up to now had no experience of the MH services and who may be reading this thread in horror.

Do not mischaracterise what I have posted.
I am not patronising people who are able to make rational decisions.

I am NOT presenting things to be true about the MH system as a whole. I know that in a lot of cases it does excellent work, I have always stated "in my experience". Why you think I'm alluding to this I don't know!

Anyhow, I don't think this topic can be concluded. I disagree with you and don't think commenting any further on it will serve any purpose.

The mindfulness books I am looking forward to reading. The ethos (from the little I've read) appeals to me and I like the sentiment of being thankful for things we have as opposed to what we (GENERAL) don't have.

People on the birth threads are generally not people potentially unable to make rational decisions because of an illness that has robbed them of their ability to discern reality from delusion, which is a danger in mental illness that is not normally found as a symptom of pregnancy.

I like that ethos too shakey - looking forward to mindfulness reading tomorrow and learning more.

I don't agree, I think that the fear and panic that can spread through all the negative reporting about birth experiences can very much cause irrational decisions.

FWIW I think your job is done, anyone who searches and bumps into this thread will find no rational reasonable discussion about peoples personal experiences of MH services, all they will find is people trying to justify their own experiences to you.. sad really

"People on the birth threads are generally not people potentially unable to make rational decisions because of an illness that has robbed them of their ability to discern reality from delusion, which is a danger in mental illness that is not normally found as a symptom of pregnancy."

bollocks. it is a danger in SOME manifestations of SOME mental illnesses.

In addition, pregnancy is going to result in childbirth at some point (if all goes well). At that point a woman has no choice but to give birth and she has choices as to the sort of medical help she will use to accomplish that.

With mental illness, the suffering individual has the choice of staying away from treatment for good reasons or bad, and taking his or her chances on whether a crisis will occur. If this thread potentially puts off even one individual from seeking help that is needed then shame on MN.

"FWIW I think your job is done, anyone who searches and bumps into this thread will find no rational reasonable discussion about peoples personal experiences of MH services, all they will find is people trying to justify their own experiences to you.. sad really"

i disagree never- this thread has great info and attempts to curtail, divert and goad have failed.

no I think you are wrong. I know of 2 ladies who are childless, primarily because they are petrified of giving birth. One of whom has had a termination because she knew she wouldn't be able to do it. So much of that has to do with the only thing she has ever heard about childbirth is big and scarey.

She is now in therapy and hopes to have a baby at some point in the future but for the time being it is just all too much for her.

I think this thread has made me feel like I am just a silly little girl who shouldn't speak out. I feel like I'm being told off and it's actually been quite triggering for me. So I'm going to hide it now. Have copied all your useful links and stuff though, so thanks for those guys.

that is shameful yellow and am very sorry that you feel that way :( i hope you come back.

Sorry to hear that yellow - hope the links are helpful in the future.

I never suggested anyone's experiences being 'validated' as 'some form of MH outreach' (paraphrasing) - I am really sorry though that you've been made to feel like you can't post.

All best for the future

'I don't agree, I think that the fear and panic that can spread through all the negative reporting about birth experiences can very much cause irrational decisions.'

Ultimately, a woman is in the hands of medical staff when push comes to shove and will be seriously urged to take on board medical advice and agree to certain measures, often with the urging of her birth partner too.

Or are you seriously trying to suggest that there are women whose hearts are set on a vaginal delivery who take their business elsewhere when everyone in the delivery room is telling them they need an EMCS?

'FWIW I think your job is done, anyone who searches and bumps into this thread will find no rational reasonable discussion about peoples personal experiences of MH services, all they will find is people trying to justify their own experiences to you.. sad really'

Rational discussion went out the window very early on on this thread, long before I joined it.

So math will you stop posting in this thread when you've upset everyone enough they leave it? People who have found this thread useful have been scared off by YOU.

What makes you so sure you are right? Maybe people are finding it helpful as they say? So if you aren't why don't you leave people alone?

Math, I'm hiding this thread too. Not that you'll care, but my reason is your overbearing insistence that mental health care mustn't be discussed (except in hushed tones, perhaps). You've succeeded in feeding my fears of being thought unworthy, unintelligent, irrational and incapable - all bigoted ideas which you have expounded through this thread. Congratulations, you've triggered a setback in at least one patient.

If anybody's posts on this thread have frightened someone away from seeking MH treatment, they are the posts which characterise sufferers as raving, deluded fools who should not be trusted with information about their own care. Those posts are yours.