I have just read again that depression is a result of internal anger and it makes me feel so sad that I never knew this before and than no one in the MH profession ever told me.

[JustFab]

As a lot of you know I have had PND and AND and have been on ADs for many years but am being weaned off them slowly. I had the realisation that I didn't need them and what my difficulties actually were. If what I said in my title is the case, why is this never talked about and explored instead of people just being given drugs?

There are loads of theories on what causes depression or anxiety. I read a book on the theory of human gives that suggests that humans have basic emotional needs (Ie. friendship, privacy, intellectual challange, status in the community for example) and if those emotional needs are not met we become ill. There are many medical people who believe that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance and the chemical imbalance causes internal anger.

Does our distorting thinking cause the chemical imbalance or does the chemical imbalance cause the distorting thinking. Its really a chicken and egg situaiton. Certainly there are some people who need medication for life and no amount of pychotheraphy is going to stop someone being bi polar for example. However a good theraphist might help someone come to terms with a long term medical condition.

Drugs are important in the fight against depression. There is no doult that anti depressants save lives and for some people anti depressants are enough. CBt works for some people but not others.

What is important is for health professionals to realise there is never going to be a one size fits all.

I feel that the ADs did help me and whether they medically, chemically did or they were placebos don't really matter I suppose.

I think I was well looked after until I was 1 and then after that was a nightmare so I guess I was always going to have problems. I am going to find me again though.

in my case my depression is caused through guilt...simple as that....

blighty i tried to cope with it by hopefully improving childrens lives and experiences when i was a nursery nurse but it only lasted a couple of years....as the guilt was still felt everyday...your more than welcome to inbox me, if you would like some support sweetheart x

I think a lot depends on how deep the depression is. For moderate/ serious depression that impairs basic living you need medication.

Once a chemical imbalance is lifted a bit by medication, then you can start tackling the causes. I have found that online CBT very useful. I have also read a book on human givens that tells you how to do a emotional needs audit.

www.hgi.org.uk/archive/human-givens.htm#essentialneeds

Getting these emotional needs met can be hard at times. As a completely amatuer pcyhologist with no qualifications I think its very easy to focus on a depressed/ anxious person's ruminations. Ie. you feel excessive guilt about something you have or haven't done it is a symptom rather than the cause of the illness.

I found it helpful doing an evening course once a week to meet my needs for intellectual challenge. The course has also allowed me to meet people and acted as a distraction. However what works for me might not work for other people.

I think that CBT helps to challenge negative thoughts. In life we are responsible for ourselves and not the actions of other people. When we are ill its really hard not to see the world in black and white.

I am also interested in mindfulness as way of managing difficult thoughts. The only problem is that I am useless at mediation.

As I said before there is no magic bullet.

Psychotherapy doesn't always help depression/anxiety either. Pretty often, depression/anxiety (resulting from inwardly turned negative emotions) are justified. The cure is to remove yourself from the circumstances which generate the negative emotions (your job, your husband etc).

Psychotheraphy can often make problems worse. It can make people focus on the past instead of the present. The emotional introspection can make some people more stressed and angry and actually make depression worse. It is really easy to become emotionally dependent on a councellor and sometimes the transference issues can end up being worse than the inital problem.

At 37 years old a client doesn't need a Mummy type figure to curl up into their lap to be nutured. They need to be taught how to manage their own emotions. In some cases help with assertiveness, relaxation, anger management, unhelpful thinking strageries or anxiety management can be more useful. Sometimes life coaching to make necessary changes can be more helpful than a simple sounding board.

There are many different types of councelling and some work better than others. I think it helps to track your mood by using an online questionaire like www.livinglifetothefull.com has to see if something is actually working.

Depression can happen for no reason at all, same as various other illnesses, don't let the anger info get to you :)

It's normal and healthy to feel fearful when we're in a situation that our instinct tells us is not safe; it's normal and healthy to feel anger when we, or someone or something we love, is threatened; it's normal and healthy to feel sadness when we experience loss (of a person, relationship, aspect of ourselves, place, etc). But what often happens is that we are taught, or decide for ourselves, that these feelings are not OK, so we try to squash them down, block them out. We don't just feel sad or angry, we feel guilty for feeling that way. We don't just feel our feelings, we judge ourselves for having feelings. Look at young children - they get very upset, shout, scream, cry, and then five minutes later they're over it. They're running about laughing and singing again. When we block this natural flow of emotion, we block our energy, our life force.

That's one way of looking at it, anyway

Can only endorse what many have already said that depression has its roots in many things, and certainly not just as a result of anger turned in on itself. I actually think it is most unhelpful for things like this to be written, and people like OP (JustFab) take them on board. I think that loss (of some sort -not necessarily a bereavement) can cause depression, but so can many other things and sometimes there doesn't seem to be any cause.

As reallytired has said the issue of whether an imbalance in brain chemistry causes depresseion or whether it is the other way round, is a chicken and egg sitaution and medics cannot throw light on this. I think one of the big problems is that even in this 21st century, so little is known about brain disorder. Medics don't even know how ADs work or why they react differently on different people, or why an AD helps in one episode and not in another. It's all a question of trial and error and this makes this awful illness worse.

The other thing is I am utterly convinced that only people who have suffered the torment of severe depression can understand, so that makes it worse too (well it does for me) it is a deceitful illness and tells us things about ourselves that aren't true. And as Flimflan says makes us feel guilty for having the illness and for me it makes me feel ashamed.

I just hope that in the fullness of time (maybe another century!) that more will be known about brain disorder and there will be relief for the people who suffer from all mental illnesses.

I though loss was one of the biggest triggers for depression not anger.

The anger thing is not for me. Ad's help me more than anything else. 2 lots of cbt have made no difference and am now on 3rd. This doesn't seem to be doing much either

I will get better and I wll be me again, and I have improved hugely.

If I do have any anger it is unwelcome and has just been there.

I would like to let go my desire to have 5 minutes with my mother though.

My depression is definitely situational. Though I am interested to know why I am prone to coping with situations like that as many people don't do they? Maybe it is internal anger from my abusive childhood. When I was younger I used to keep quiet and hope I wouldn't be noticed, thats how I coped, maybe I am doing the same now without realising it. Internalising all my anger and pain and then becoming depressed. Once I am physically removed from a stressful situation it does lift very quickly though.

I think for me Flimflammery's theory nails it.

I would say you coped by keeping quiet and withdrawing. That doesn't have to be internalised anger, but that is the coping strategy you learned at a very young age, and that is how you cope now.

But how does that lead to depression? Because it isn't natural to do that with your emotions?

NanaNina, I agree. I think it is unhelpful for things like that to be written.

However, to be contrary, depression and loss are closely linked. It doesn't have to be an obvious loss like a bereavement, but could be a more indirect loss (loss of beliefe in oneself for instance)

I would need to know more about your situation. However is there a "natural" way to behave. You may have had no choice when younger other than to behave like that (ie not wanting to be noticed, hiding for fear of abuse). That was how your developing childhood brain learned to deal with bad situations.

So that is what happens now

Belief

Yes. The scary thing is though it makes it almost impossible for me to remove myself from the situation causing the depression. I just go into myself, complete inertia and can't see ANY way out at all, so I do nothing, I never get out when I should and then it just gets worse and worse until there is a huge explosion and then I am out and the depression lifts.

Blimey I think I should have come onto this board before now, I was a bit scared to though, I don't like talking about my depression as it tends to trigger panic attacks. But my first paragraph is the first time I have verbalised that.

Thanks for answering me.

You are meant to force yourself to do stuff. This builds connections between the synapases in the brain. Almost impossible to do I know, but it is basic cbt.

Right. Well thats useful to know. I must say though I do force myself to get out and about even when I don't feel like it and I feel myself sinking and always feel glad I did. So it does work. I have the CBT for Dummies book, I think I should take a proper look at it.

Sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread.

I think its really important to take tiny steps. Depression or anxiety hijacks the amelga. (Ie. the fight or flight part of the brain). When we are experiencing extreme emotion like depression, anger, fear or love we only use a tiny part of our brain. Our thinking becomes very quick and black and white. In caveman days it benefited us because our survial depended on making swift decisions when faced with a sabre tooth cat.

The problem with depression controlling the amelga is that the amelga is the size of a walnut. It becomes hard to think our way out of insurrmountable problems. Depressed people are often ridicolous ambitious and set themselves impossible targets. Failing to meet impossible targets is bad for morale. A good theraphist can help you to set realistic and achievable goals.

Ie. planning to spring clean the entire house in a morning is unrealistic. However it might be reasonable to clean the bathroom or even just the toilet. You might attempt to go in the garden if you are agriphobic before attempting to go shopping in Tescos on a Saturday afternoon.

Getting better often takes baby steps. Its important not be too disheartened if you don't make progress fast enough.